eMailbag- Advice on doublehanded dinghy choice?

by Peter van Hout on 27 Jun 2006 From the Sail-World eMailbag:

Has there been any discussion on a double handed boat for those kids getting out of Optimists but not big enough to get into a 420.

Something like a modern Flying Ant or Junior Cherub or can we start the discussion?


Peter van Hout

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Replies:

Malcolm Tubby:

I am from Wakatere Sailing Club.

We really must have a double handed boat pre. 420’s or 29’ers for kids. Congratulations on bringing the topic to the fore.

Akarana have been trailing the Cadet, but I understand with limited success. The Cadet is an old design with limited performance.

I was at the London Dinghy Show this January and was highly impressed with the RS Feva. It is a high performance easily handled boat designed specifically for this group of sailors.

A group of my friends in the UK have their kids in RS Feva and cannot sing their praises loud enough.

It is also ISAF recognised and has a growing International presence. There are 30+ in Australia.

Chris Mitchell:

Should you not already have them, I would be happy to send you the series of articles produced by Neil Kennedy on this very subject. And/or to put you in contact with him for a personal reply. There are very strong feelings about this and the success of other countries like the UK in recent times. I endorse the Kennedy view point.

SW: Don't bother here's the URL for Ned's Locker: http://hyc.org.nz/zephyr/navigation/Neds-Locker/Neds-Locker.html


Sefton Powrie:

Try the cadets at akarana


Paul Sieberhagen:

I would like to contribute my penny’s worth on this subject:

A bit of background here first: I have recently emigrated to NZ from South Africa where I was an active Hobie (16) sailor. The arrival of offspring pretty much put paid to that activity since the new mother used to be my faithful and patient crew. Kids grow up rapidly though and in short order I had to answer the dad/daughter portion of the above question.

Our choice, in South Africa, was the Mirror, a stable gaff rigged blunt bowed boat with jib and even a little bag. Being homebuilt out of timber and ply I thought it best not to test the patience of MAF and the little boat with the red sail that first got us on the water was left behind.

Much to my surprise a replacement was very hard to find. Instead I bought a 470, hoping that we could hike it flat until my daughter could learn the fine art of 'hanging out'. The jury is still out on the wisdom of this decision, on the plus side I was surprised at my new crews’ uptake on the myriad of the control systems, with our combined weight the boat performed well in light winds and provided a fairly dry sail, which would be a bonus once the weather turned. On the downside there is no way we can fly the bag, and wouldn’t be able to do this, realistically for a few years and while the jib sheets and barber haulers are within the strength range of a youngster the vang, downhaul and cunningham are most definitely not.

While a Mirror would have offered the opportunity within a few years of the 2 girls sailing as skipper and crew the 470 can not realistically fulfill this duty until their mid teens, still quite a while away.

So in conclusion, if your aim is to sail as an adult with your kids and teach them that way, a more complicated and bigger boat, like the 470, can be used, but a more basic, lighter, boat like the Mirror, seems to offer more flexibility and especially if you want to start young sailing careers early on so much less daunting.

So what in New Zealand can take the place of the Mirror, or is their scope for this class to develop here beyond the handful at Stanley Bay?

Magnus Gravare (SWE)

First of all it is incredible that NZL goes back to the 420 as a doublehander youth class. The 420 is a moderately successful 1950s class. You have so many other dinghies available in NZL that is much more attractive. The Youth Worlds doublehander for 2007 and 2008 will be the 29er, a class built by your top dinghy boatbuilder Mackay. A class much supported by your local sailing legend Russell Coutts.

Skip the 420 go for the 29er and use the RS Feva as the trainer, if you want to be progressive. Or use one of your local kiwi classes. What were you thinking when attempting to build your youth development around an absolutely obsolete design?


Harold Gratton
Picton

In the late 60's, early 70's there was an excellent little Dart class - an 11 foot boat designed by Des Townson. These are a bit like a 2 - man Starling with a jib and a spinnaker. I think it would be good to see these resurrected as they have excellent performance and can be sailed by 2 'youth's' or by father/mother and son/daughter.


Ian Swinton:

The Flying Ant would get my vote. The original sail area was increased by John Spencer, its designer, for use in Australia. The revised sail plan is shown on the attached drawing. Flying Ants are raced on both the East and West coasts of Australia. They are more like a scaled down Cherub. Further information is available on www.flyingants.org.au. Now if someone was to provide light fibreglass hulls for the home handyman to finish off, that might kick start the class here.

Alec Knewstubb:

For a boat capable of being sailed by two kids, or by an adult and one kid, it's hard to see why we would not simply 'recognise' the Sunburst.
There's no need at Junior level to be in international boats, simply a good safe boat that's not too hard to sail. The Sunburst is well proven there are plenty around, they can be home-built if you want to. Plenty of schools still have them , and Sea Scout groups use them, and there's already a class Association. Why go for boats which are just as old, and foreign as well (420s, Cadets)? (and no, I'm not biased, I've never owned one )

From North America:

Hello from across the world.

This is the boat that has started to be the transitional craft from Optimist to 420 here on Long Island, USA.
Take a look. I would enjoy your thoughts!

The Dinghy Shop would be the place to pursue your needs. www.dinghyshop.com dinghyshop@pipeline.com

http://www.brucekirbymarine.com/index.html


Hal Wagstaff:

Great to know that others have applied their minds to providing a boat that will encourage and stimulate the development of our young sailors. Among others, we have put our thoughts not just on paper but on the water. The result is Tandem, which may be seen and test sailed at the Manly Sailing Club, Whangaparaoa Peninsula.

To give it ago, contact Stephen Wagstaff (phone 09 4273202, work, or Hal Wagstaff 09 4766402).


Rob Ebert (Hamilton YC):

I have an interest in double handed boats as Commodore of the Hamilton Yacht Club, father of a 9 year old daughter and 7 year old son with a wide circle of friends. I think I can coax them and their mates into sailing, but I doubt all of their parents will stump up for a boat. I need something with capacity!

I think a double handed boat of around 11-12 foot would be good for NZ yachting. The preponderance of monotypes in our current class structure probably keeps a few kids out of sailing. Since the Opti came along the 'parent/sibliing' classes - Frostply, Mistral, etc, seem to have declined and the Flying Ant is now an Aussie boat.

The RS Feva concept seems like a good one and I note there are plans to import them here soon. YNZ may be canvasing interest in such craft, soliciting comment on 'Y generation boats' in a recent questionairre on Junior and Youth Sailing (see their web site).

I ended up investigating the Cadet, Flying Ant, JB 360, then ended up preferring the Townson Dart (details at www.zephyr.org.nz) - partly because I am a long time Zephyr sailor and I think the Townson pedigree is a good one -