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The RYA will boycott another Olympics?

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Olympic Sailing
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URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9168
Printed Date: 26 May 22 at 10:42am
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Topic: The RYA will boycott another Olympics?
Posted By: Colin Simonds
Subject: The RYA will boycott another Olympics?
Date Posted: 02 Apr 12 at 7:56pm

The RYA will boycott another Olympics

If this is not true then why do they insist to keep the power to do it.
 
After many years of passionate and focussed effort -  a number of excellent and some world class UK sailors ( like Chris Law and Rob White and others) won the 1980 olympic trials.  All done without any signifcant outside financial support.  
Have  a look at Yachts and Yachting website under  ''The team that never was''.
 
The RYA council boycotted the 1980 Olympics and ruined the efforts and dreams of that years' athletes. For some it led to yars of depression - for most they left the sport at Olympic level in 1981.  The UK team took a decade plus to recover to 1980 levels.

''RYA BOYCOTTS SAILING OLYMPICS'' WAS ALL OVER THE PRESS IN 1980

IT MAY HAPPPEN AGAIN WHILE THE ATHLETICS TEAM AGAIN VOTE AND COMPETE.  IT ALMOST HAPPENED AT BEIJING DUE TO HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES AND TIBET ??
 
Rodney Pattison - Sir Steve Redgrave are examples of those denied the right to try to go the the 1980 Olympics as various sports pulled out. Lord Coe went -  well done him - and became a household name and celebrity for life' 
 
The RYA went totally lost the plot in 1980 and forgot why they exist (to encourage sailing not BOYCOTT it). (They have done many other better things in recent years).
A core part of the problem was that the RYA - not the athletes - had to make that boycott decision.   In Athletics the team had the right to vote -  they voted to go and the Athletics Federation were able to say to Thatcher - ''not our call  - so leave us alone ''
 
I have burned inside ever since what the RYA did to the 1980 group (without so much a a chat let alone a consultation or a vote)  and I know others have as well in sailing and other teams
 
Most of the 1980 team are still desperate to find a way to stop the RYA keeping the power to do this again. As yet they refuse to understand or recognise the serious error in 1980 or the future risk issue. If they drop that power and like Athletics did even before 1980 - pass that power to the athletes vote -  no one can bully them again.
 
OK some of us can see it was hard under pressure  in 1980 to remember the RYA stated purpose - to support sailing - so WHY do they insist to keep the right to do it again?
 
To see more about this and please help us get this changed --  see our website and our letter to the RYA from almost all the 1980 Trials winners.
 
See http://www.nomoreryaolympicboycotts.com/ - www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com   .  We have already 400 plus votes on our petition to the RYA who as yet refuse to even meet their 1980 team to discuss this matter  -   please join us to protect future Uk Olympic race teams.
 
Any website or other comments totally welcome - our campign email address is also on the site.
 
Just imagine if the RYA pull out of the next Olympics under government pressure due to ? - to give a silly suggestion   ?   burning too many rainforests?   But then how silly is that when you remember they pulled out in 1980 due to there being foreign troops in Afghanistan.
 
YOUR HELP AND COMMENTS NEEDED PLEASE


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com



Replies:
Posted By: SoggyBadger
Date Posted: 02 Apr 12 at 8:11pm
I've been doing my own personal Olympic boycott for decades. F*** em and more fool anyone gullible enough to get sucked into it.

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Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB



Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 02 Apr 12 at 8:34pm
This had an effect on my decision not to fall into their 'clutches'. In 1980 I was at the top of my game, and windsurfing had been slated as a discipline in the next games (1984), as this was going on, or shortly after they approached me, back then it was still pretending to be an amateur affair, no adverts, no pro's, any sponsorship money had to go to them to be 'laundered', all very typically British fudged corruption.

I considered it very hard, but what they did to these guys, just rolling over to the body politic and back then Thatcher was not the force she later became, it was shoddy, hypocritical and typical of political scumbags.

If it's any consolation, that decision of mine cost them tens of thousands of lost Carlsberg funding which we put to better use and wider spread than they ever would have.

There are a lot of good things about the RYA, but their Olympic management isn't one of them imho and certainly not during this period.


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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 02 Apr 12 at 9:11pm
Surely its an utterly pointless exercise since any such rule can simply be changed back again. There are more useful things to be done.


Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 02 Apr 12 at 9:26pm
I agree with GRF
Nothing in this criticises the many good things the RYA has done in recent years for the sport  mainly under the excellent Rod Carr.
Fair point Jim C
-  but pretty sure not correct - I have legall advice otherwsie  - if it is written into their constitution it would need a full EGM and full RYA member vote to change back - tough to do in a rush under pressure . If Athletics can do it  - and went to 1980 Olympics why can not the RYA copy it. 
Soggy Badger
I will never regret the racing and training we did - but - would not want anyone to go where we finished up.
 
 
 
have a look at our http://www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com - www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com site  I hope all is explained there
thanks
 
Colin Simonds


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 02 Apr 12 at 10:14pm
I doubt that these days the RYA would pull out of any Olympics where they thought they had a chance of winning medals.  If a situation were so bad as to merit a boycott, I would imagine it would be a move brought about more by government than governing body, or rather the pressure would come from that source.  The RYA is a very different organisation now to how it was then, with many more commercial interests than politcal allegiances.   

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the same, but different...



Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 02 Apr 12 at 10:37pm
We all doubted it in 1980  but it happened - - why risk it again?  lets bolt it down
Yes if the law says you can not go then tough - but in 1980 the government threatened various things such as loss of funding, the press had gone mostly jingoist ans some were screaming that the teams should not go,  and the RYA then as now has few racers on the Council - and they folded under pressure.
 
Thanks for your interest
did you look at our site?  do please vote


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 02 Apr 12 at 11:06pm
Originally posted by winging it

I doubt that these days the RYA would pull out of any Olympics where they thought they had a chance of winning medals.  If a situation were so bad as to merit a boycott, I would imagine it would be a move brought about more by government than governing body, or rather the pressure would come from that source.  The RYA is a very different organisation now to how it was then, with many more commercial interests than politcal allegiances.   

So, it's 2016, Rio, and Argentina helped by Brazil have just kicked us out of the Falkands after the failure of the new LibLab coalition to act in time to prevent it...

They need to make a statement..

You don't think the RYA will not do exactly what they're asked.


The problem is, the RYA is there instead of a Government department, so they either toe the particular party line or become one, with all that sea tax and river tax and boat license potential...


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Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 02 Apr 12 at 11:17pm
Spot on  wish I had thought of this scenario as an example - though somehow I would work in Hugo Chavez to spice it up!!
The RYA are bound to be weak in face of Givernment pressure and must soonest pass the buck - and the decision to the sailors and remove themselves from line of fire.

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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 03 Apr 12 at 7:41am
I don't think I actually commited myself either way!  I did think of exactly that example, because it is pretty much the most probable that would affect us.  The government might well ask for a boycott - as other governments have been doing with regard to our very own Olympics - but my argument is that the RYA is far more likely to respond to financial pressure from its sponsors/investors than it will to government.  And of course, it must respond to the wishes of the membership.  There are an awful lot of sailors out there who expect the RYA to bend to their views, but don't ever bother to join.

I campaigned in the 470 for the '88, '92 some way towards the '96 Games.  Obviously I didn't make it, but had I been successful I would have been devastated had the RYA stopped me from going because of a boycott unless I agreed with the cause.  Everyone has their own beliefs.  I actually think that in such cases the individual should have the right to choose.  I can well imagine several European Court cases taking place should any kind of organisation try to veto the the rights of an individual to take part in a Games, simply because of that organisations political allegiances.

An interesting tack to take, I would think.


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the same, but different...



Posted By: Jeremy S Cooper
Date Posted: 03 Apr 12 at 8:33am
The RYA is just one of the 26 sport associations which make up the British Olympic Association. 
Surely, if, in the event that political pressure is brought to bear for a potential boycott for any reason, then the final decision should be the BOA's, not an individual sport where there might be individual pressures to act unilaterally.
The RYA and all the various UK Sports controlling bodies should amend their constitutions to relinquish the right to boycott and pass on the responsibility for any political reaction to the British Olympic Association for a single, united, considered and debated action to include ALL Olympic sports in the same way.


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Jeremy Spencer -Cooper

Is your business resilient to loss of water supply?


Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 03 Apr 12 at 10:27am
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Originally posted by winging it

I doubt that these days the RYA would pull out of any Olympics where they thought they had a chance of winning medals.  If a situation were so bad as to merit a boycott, I would imagine it would be a move brought about more by government than governing body, or rather the pressure would come from that source.  The RYA is a very different organisation now to how it was then, with many more commercial interests than politcal allegiances.   

So, it's 2016, Rio, and Argentina helped by Brazil have just kicked us out of the Falkands after the failure of the new LibLab coalition to act in time to prevent it...

They need to make a statement..

You don't think the RYA will not do exactly what they're asked.


The problem is, the RYA is there instead of a Government department, so they either toe the particular party line or become one, with all that sea tax and river tax and boat license potential...
 
Very good point. It's why a chnange is needed. I had already signed the petition.


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Steve B
RS300 411
D-Zero 11

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Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 03 Apr 12 at 11:04am
I've signed it, but it sounds like GRF's been reading too many ridiculous Falkland's based hysterical fiction pieces in the Daily Heil, and was there any real threat to boycott Beijing over the issue of Tibet? Really? Any credible evidence for this?

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-_
Al


Posted By: bert
Date Posted: 03 Apr 12 at 11:15am
Sorry Al but as a person who works in that part of the world GRF has a very real point.
The games is just a tool to make a point & if Argentina is more useful to a country then their veiw will be considered more highly then the reality or anybody else's point of view or in some cases the truth.
Plus the promise of oil at a cheaper price to some local countries will be a very useful lever, after all there are large reservers in the falkland waters. 
 
Given the news today about the embassies in Argentina & the stiring up of the situation by the polticial parties. I would consider GRF's POV to be quite lightweight rather then over the top.


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Phantom 1181
AC-227 IC 304
blaze / halo 586




Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 03 Apr 12 at 11:42am
If you want to check about the real risk there was of a Beijing Boycott,  please remember that in the end only our then Pm refused to attend the opening ceremony as a political gesture against sport -  but if you google 2008 Beijing Olympic Boycott  You will see that it was a hairs breath away from gaining traction
All it needed was a politician who thought they would get votes by looking strong and sacrificing the team - that is what caused the 1980 Boycott  Carter was low in the polls and facing an election.  He still lost.

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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 03 Apr 12 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by alstorer

I've signed it, but it sounds like GRF's been reading too many ridiculous Falkland's based hysterical fiction pieces in the Daily Heil, and was there any real threat to boycott Beijing over the issue of Tibet? Really? Any credible evidence for this?

OK here's another scenario, Brazil 2016, now the worlds fourth largest economy thanks to raw material supply to China, has given the Chinese a naval base right in the States backyard with tensions heightening over continued US pressure over human rights issues and Naval manoeuvres in the South China Seas, China decides to hand back similar treatment just prior to the Rio Games with it's latest nuclear armed super carrier visiting the area..

Hows that going to go down?


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Posted By: andy101
Date Posted: 03 Apr 12 at 11:11pm
Keep reading the Tom Clancy books & I am sure you can come up with a few more China/Brazil senarios!!


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 03 Apr 12 at 11:45pm
Iran just nuked Israel thanks to weapons grade uranium supplied by Brazil?Wink

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Posted By: rogue
Date Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 1:31pm
The grey suits died years ago, these days most of the RYA staff are just a bunch of chino-wearing coasters milking the gravy train that drips off the Volvo-sponsored medals.

I really can't imagine they're going to pass up an opportunity for a cachaca-fuelled company jolly to Rio.  Especially not 'cos some Labour Government mouthpiece is concerned about a shortage in diamante encrusted havianas to match her election-winning vajazzle.

Besides, if the RYA didn't go, who'd take all the nice photos of Team GB's girlies cleaning up in the RS900?  

It would be a travesty...  it's Rio baby, party time!  Let's save the global political intervention for when the A-rabs get 2020 in Doha.  


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Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 6:21pm
If you think our investment in our armed services is low, then just take a look at Argentina. Since they overthrew their military regime after the Falklands war, they have consistently reduced their military spending, to the point where they are barely paying the wages of the armed forces. Yes the Eurofighter 2000 (cough!!!! Typhoon) was about 7years late and cost us many billions, the JSF is now about 10years late and the powers that be keep changing their minds as to what they want. Our carriers have been binned, as we dont have any Sea Harriers left but we do have our new Frigates, and we do have enough spending to enable us to continue fighting wars against uprisings in the middle east.
Argentina however have spent nothing. They still operate the same kit they had at the end of the Falklands war and would struggle to actually put fuel in most of it if they were put under threat.
The latest wranglings are a war of words which will not and cannot turn into anything more, unless suitably armed countries suddenly side with Argentina, but there would have to be something in it for them.
The risk of an event leading to a boycott therefore is very low.

I am however in agreement with Colin, that the RYA should not have the power to boycott an International Sporting event such as the Olympics. In the current sponsor & lottery funded climate, I cant imagine them being able to boycott anyway. The sponsor want their advertising after all!


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 8:35pm
http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/wjb/zzjg/ldmzs/gjlb/3453/default.htm - Makes interesting reading

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Posted By: Jeremy S Cooper
Date Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 10:19pm
The Chinese will be very happy to increase their sphere of influence from Africa into South America - the politics will be fascinating and the ramifications way beyond the political nous of our current 'masters'. 
 


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Jeremy Spencer -Cooper

Is your business resilient to loss of water supply?


Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 10:55pm
IN 1980 the sponsors were so worried by the press backlash that for example - in rowing - the sponsor pulled out all the promised support money. Sponsors can push in either direction  just like politcians.  They feed off sporting success when it suits them .
 
I have no idea what the Argies can or can not do in 2016 wiht out without fellow South American help,   what I do know that in next 20 years boycotts will not go away and I do not want to watch one to happen, and I did not do my absolute best in 2012 - when we - the 1980 team  - had a real chance to make changes happen. 
 
It could be the best thing we ever did for the sport.


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: rogue
Date Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by Colin Simonds


It could be the best thing we ever did for the sport.

really?  You're clearly very passionate (still) and resentful about the situation for which I am deeply sympathetic.  However I think there's pretty much some small consensus here that would think the RYA's last ever course of action would be make a political statement about a global situation by vetoing participation at the Olympics.  There's just too much money and genuine political equity at stake for some grandiose crusade that does not directly affect their core mission of self regulating, representing and growing the UK sailing and boating community. Even if on paper, they still have some archaic right, I strongly doubt they would exercise that right unless lobbied to 'fall in line' by a larger player up the food chain- e.g. UK government or the BOA, and if this were the case, ALL participation would be questioned, not just the dinghy sailing, cat saling and kite boarding.


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Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 12:01am
Yes passionate is true - that is why I am doing this - that is why after 30 years this still burns me and others in the team and indeed others who might have made the team. a couple of key prospects did not even attend the trials as the Olympics already seemed unlikely.
But one point you may be missing is that if the proverbial hits the fan again and pressure is put on sport generally to boycott  - there are still a few sports - sailing included -  where the killer decision is held by the Sports own council - the RYA in our case. 
The main big sports like athletics  the decision in 1980 and still now  is held by the sportsmen by vote - that is why they went - that is why Lord Coe and Duncan Mayhew went - in 1980.
Our team ( not me to be honest) lost 3 solid gold chances of gold medals at Moscow. and almost all the team were rated medal prospects.
Our next generation of stars could again watch other teams go - win medals - get MBEs and careers in sport,  while they stay at home.
WE MUST NOT ALLOW THE RYA TO RISK THIS the vote should be passed fomr the council to the athletes like other sports
 
 


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: laser4000
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 12:05am
Originally posted by Colin Simonds

The RYA will boycott another Olympics



Colin

I'm sorry that you didn't get a chance to compete at the games - you're clearly a talented sailor, but surely 30 years on it's time to let it lie?

RYA funding is delivered by Olympic success, if we do well in 2012 then we'll be setup - as much as we can given all the cutbacks planned for 2016. I can only see 2 scenarios where we might not go to the games in 2016.

(1) The government says no
(2) The BOA says no - across all sports..

I don't believe a commercial, political RYA of the 21st century would leave itself open to ridicule / loss of sponsorship by unilaterally refusing to send a team unless either 1 or 2 above applies. Sorry but I think youre 'campaign' is somewhat pointless.

oh and please learn how to turn off bold on all your posts - it makes them hard to read...



Posted By: ham4sand
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 1:05am
they wouldnt boycott a home olympics anyway, please stop typing in bold, its annoying

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John Hamilton
cherub 2645 - cheese before bedtime
cherub 3209 - anatidaephobia
laser 176847 - kiss this
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Posted By: Jeremy S Cooper
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 8:08am
laser 4000,

I agree with the jist of what you say, but the fact still remains that the RYA have retained their own authority to boycott unilaterally.
I would much prefer them to relinquish that right to the BOA so there is no doubt and no chance of political pressure being brought to bear on a sport where political correctness is currently absent.


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Jeremy Spencer -Cooper

Is your business resilient to loss of water supply?


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 8:41am
As I said earlier, stripping away the hyperbole about the what-ifs surrounding south america, your proposal is actually very sound.

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-_
Al


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 9:26am
So if the RYA in the 21st century would be so reluctant to consider a boycott then why do they cling on to it? And why are any of you even arguing against this suggestion.

Politics in general is an at best dishonest at worse evil war generating entity, Politics in sport is an abomination. Sport brings nations together, sportsmen and women view each other in an entirely different light than members of another 'nationality' 'religion' or 'culture', it's the evil b**tards that feed off their enterprises that cause trouble.

I can see no reason in the 21st century for the RYA to retain the right to insist on retaining a boycott, they don't own sailors, they are a supposedly a body of sailors gathered to defend their own interests, something that is oft forgotten by the jobsworths hired to run the body.


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Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 10:00am
Is the RYA actually "clinging on to it"? Has anyone actually taken a motion to change the situation to the board or the AGM?

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-_
Al


Posted By: SUGmeister
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 10:26am
Originally posted by Jeremy S Cooper

The Chinese will be very happy to increase their sphere of influence from Africa into South America - the politics will be fascinating and the ramifications way beyond the political nous of our current 'masters'. 
 


China is permanently on the hunt for resources. Argentina 'sells' exclusive rights to all the oil that 'belongs' to them to China for XYZ Billion. Chinese warships will obviously be needed to protect their investment but what's this, Brits occupying Argie Islands and stealing the oil. Velly velly interlesting. Good job we've still got a Navy fit for purpose!


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Simon SUGmeister
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.


Posted By: rogue
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 10:42am
shame the Queen Elizabeth Class won't be commissioned for rapid response air support until after the fecking games then innit?  

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Posted By: SUGmeister
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 11:17am
Originally posted by rogue

shame the Queen Elizabeth Class won't be commissioned for rapid response air support until after the fecking games then innit?  


There's the point, as a country we don't need 2 American sized QE Class carriers, for the same money we could have built 6 (or more) Invincible pocket carriers which could have been built by now, continue using, and upgrading, the Sea Harriers for as long as necessary until the F-35B came along.

Cretins Blaire and Brown just had to have a bigger Carrier than the French


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 11:38am
I suppose its inevitale that this topic would get political...

Personally I think it would be foolish of the RYA to bind themselves about what they should do no matter what the circumstances.

Turkeys rarely vote for Christmas, so we know that the sailors would vote to go no matter what the circumstances. Whether the RYA was right or wrong to implement the boycott last time is difficult to say even with hindsight.

I do agree with other contemporary sailors who have stated elsewhere that the people who happpened to win the rather pointless event at Weymouth do not consitute an Olympic team for the 1980 games, and that there is no way of knowing who would have been in such a team.


Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 1:53pm
I do worry about the
Who might or might not have won the 1980 trials- discussion.
 
Unfortunately the BOA and LOCOG have used this to sideline our requests for a meeting and one key BOA meeting was suddenly cancelled after this article was published that it was a non event.  The author of that artice has in fact signed our petition and supports us.
 
Of the main serious 1980 players only Rodney Pattison (who was rated 3rd FD in UK at the time  and his naval crew's leave was cancelled) and Lawrie Smith 470  (chose a paid for skipper job elsewhere) did not show up.  The athletes were told by Vernon Stratton that like the rowers council  (who boycotted and then changed their minds )- the decision could still be reversed and we should race. We were broke but we took him at his word and went.
 
Some of the others who did attend may not have been in the 'mood' to try their best but that will not change the key issues ahead.
 
Who the team may have been is not important to the core issues that  must be addressed
 
1    The UK had we had three sailors Chris Law Rob White and David Campbell James who won the pre Olympic  Europeans in their classes with a race to spare in 1980 and were solid gold prospects and the RYA council ruined their sailing careers for ever wihtou so much as The RYA president getting ou of his chair to go find them and sorry they had to do this.  These three guys above the others and me deserve a better result fomr the RYA and sorry would be a good start  trying to get them the MBEs they would almost certainly have got would help.  President Carter who started all this apologised and admitted it was a bad decision -  why can not the RYA?
 
2     It does not matter who the team might have been - Either the RYA made a mess of the selected team's lives or made a mess of all those people who won the trials and those vey few others that claim they might have done. most of the team quit after the trials and either left the sport at Olympic level -- or just dropped back in later.  The team focus and success took 12 years to recover.
 
The RYA can and one day likely will be easily bullied into doing it again in next 20 years or more   - the Athletics and swimming team never did and never will because the vote is with the athletes
 
 


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: rogue
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by Colin Simonds

The RYA can and one day likely will be easily bullied into doing it again in next 20 years or more   - the Athletics and swimming team never did and never will because the vote is with the athletes
 
 

Then so be it, imho.  If it's really come to that and there's such significant global pressure (war, famine, economic meltdown, genocide, pandemic illness... whatever)  for the RYA to boycott, then the 5 ring circus dinghy dancing really is the least of our worries... sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's the reality of the 21st Century.


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Posted By: andy101
Date Posted: 05 Apr 12 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by Jeremy S Cooper

The Chinese will be very happy to increase their sphere of influence from Africa into South America - the politics will be fascinating and the ramifications way beyond the political nous of our current 'masters'.


China is permanently on the hunt for resources. Argentina 'sells' exclusive rights to all the oil that 'belongs' to them to China for XYZ Billion. Chinese warships will obviously be needed to protect their investment but what's this, Brits occupying Argie Islands and stealing the oil. Velly velly interlesting. Good job we've still got a Navy fit for purpose!


 

 

Better keep a close eye on them boys - the buggers will be half way across Poland before anyone has noticed! 


 


Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 06 Apr 12 at 6:17pm
So if Brazil nationalises all the British owned Oilfields in Brazilin 2015 ( No suggestion they will - just a silly example)  and the government  bully the the Athletes  councils not to go - it will be fine if Atleics and swmming go and win medlas and get MBE and get careers in UK sport like Coe and Moynihan have done  and fine taht tourists go to watch the games and fine we continue to sell them technology and stuff  - ( all this happened at Moscow)
 
But like Moscow our sailors and Canoes and Rowers stay at home?  That is not harsh  it is barmy?   and is it not remotely fair.. should be all out or none out.


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: bert
Date Posted: 07 Apr 12 at 12:30pm
From a personal POV I think that sport & politic's must be seperate BUT the real world tells me that everything is a pawn in the power game of world politics.
It is the way it is.But That doe'nt mean that we shouldn`t try to change that view.


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Phantom 1181
AC-227 IC 304
blaze / halo 586




Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 07 Apr 12 at 7:35pm
the thing is that RYA will always be involved in politics in some way. Part of their reason to exist is to be voice for sailors, protecting our ability to go about our sport without undue legislstion getting in the way. Where it becomes a problem is when it gets involved in the wrong politics- but definining that is hard to say. And who knows what deals get done on our behalf- its hard to know, but what if the RYA boycott helped buy cooperation on something affecting the bulk of the membership? would not having to have a "sailing licence" like the French be worth upsetting twenty or so sailors by deying them a chance to go the Olympics?
I still agree though that it should be a BOA descion not to go and that it should be removed from being something the RYA can do.

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-_
Al


Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 09 Apr 12 at 6:46pm
Regrets but we do not trust the BOA either - nothing personal- but they are also open to government bribes and threats in a way the athletes are not.
In swimming and Athletics the athletes decide to follow any voluntary boycott - or not.  That way no one can bully or bribe the atheltics or swimming  federations -  Why should our sailors be at risk when the athletics and most others are not?


-------------
Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 09 Apr 12 at 9:00pm
+1 Al.  Unlike most sporting bodies the RYA has an important representative role for all recreational boat users.  There are plenty of recent examples of its effective influence on government and non-government bodies.  That is a key difference to all other sporting bodies - one can not conceive of the swimming association having to work on National England to prevent MCZs impinging on the sport, or the Athletics body needing to work to prevent legislation which would stop a jogger running after a drink. I want it to retain all of its power as an organisation in order that it can work its influence to the max.  That means not giving decisions on boycotts to the athletes.

From a personal perspective I do recognise that there are things more important than sport.  I am not sure that the focussed (selfish (in a good way in order to reach peak performance)) athlete is best placed to make such decisions.

I also think its a bit of a dead issue - I suspect that in this day and age the corporate sponsorship input would be as big an influence on the decision as government pressure, and therefore the team would go ahead.


Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 09 Apr 12 at 9:51pm
Gobsmacked that to you ( and you are not alone)  the athletes lives and dreams and efforts and rights seem to be pawns here that are less important than other RYA membership needs and tradeable without thier permission for the benefit of other members  - but - it is a free country. 
 
In 1980 the Rowers sponsors withdrew their money due to public pressure - and though the rowers got their council to change thier mind adn allow them to go, there was little money and Steve Redgrave's team did not go as they had no funding -
 
To a top sportsman  there is  almost nothing more important than the sport - without this they would not get to the top and we would have no medals at this or any other Olympics. do they not have rights too?  should their council not suppport them also?


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 09 Apr 12 at 10:18pm
Colin - I've touched (at outstretched fingernail) elite performance in sport and elsewhere.  Perhaps the reason I only touched was the fact that I do not put the athletes lives and dreams above the other factors.

For me I find myself frustrated that the energy that is going in to this campaign is not being used more positively to grow our sport in a key opportunity year, rather than exploiting the profile of 2012 for an, as I see it, at best non-issue, and at worst a change with a potential negative effect.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 09 Apr 12 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by Colin Simonds

Gobsmacked that to you ( and you are not alone)  the athletes lives and dreams and efforts and rights seem to be pawns here that are less important than other RYA membership needs and tradeable without thier permission for the benefit of other members  - but - it is a free country. 


And quite rightly so. If the RYA is not placing the interests of the vast majority of its members above that of the tiny minority who go Olympic sailing then it has gone badly wrong.

And yes, you're quite right that to a top sportsman there is almost nothing more important than their sport, but isn't that an excellent argument for *not* giving them the final say? Frankly a lot of them would still want to go if Genghis Khan was co hosting the games with Pol Pot and they'd wiped out the population of a few villages to clear the space for the Olympic stadium... And yes, you probably do need that level of focus and singlemindedness to win a medal, but that doesn't mean its healthy.

The trouble with repetitive posting in bold is that you tend, I'm afraid, to erode at least some folks's sympathy for your cause.


Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 10 Apr 12 at 12:57am
Your views are noted - I feel the need to mention that I have also put 20 plus years into local class Committee work at my club including local class captain for 5 years  - 6 years into UK and World council committees and being class measurer for the SB3 class -  was an RYA qualified coach for a few years  - I have done my positive time for the dady to day sport as well as campaign for the future of our Olympic athletes -  despite what the RYA did to us in 1980 - at least three of the team had varying levels of long term depression.
If Ghengis  Kahn etc  then the government would make it illegal to go -


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 10 Apr 12 at 8:28pm
Could you re-iterate why this campaign is happening now, rather than 30 years ago, please?

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 10 Apr 12 at 9:36pm
+1

times and atitudes are so different now!


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Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 10 Apr 12 at 11:38pm
Fair Question.
The campaign is happening now for many reasons. 
1        When we tried to campaign in 1980 to be allowed to go to Moscow as a team ( ie reverse the boycott decision as the rowers had achieved) or go as individuals at our own expense  (as some countries did) we were threatened with a  life ban from the British team  so we had no choice but to drop our then efforts.
2         When Thatcher gave Lord Coe for example an MBE for his moscow Gold medal only 18 months after were were not allowed to go  - at her request - we were devastated that his showed to all the clear error that RYA had made Even Thatcher had done a U turn - but with 1984 trials in mind we were still unable to do anything.  Only when we had all retired was anything possible and by then we had not stomach for another battle.
3        Then came the bizarre tranposition of our troops in Afghanistan not Russians and the Olympics in UK  not Moscow- and the whole Beijing boycott scare in 2008 due to Tibet.  
We realised the threat of another boycott for our sailing team was still real and now we had  a chance of press interest. 
On researching it we found that no single event Sports boycott has EVER changed any target government policy anywhere ( FACT )  it is just a cheap political stunt at a weak minorities' expense.  Products and technology usualy go one being sold  and tourists still travel.
The Olympics being in the UK in 2012 would give the focus we needed to get our case heard at last and a real one off chance to protect future atheletes was set as our prime target.  On that some small steps forward have been achieved - but no where near enough.
 
Thanks for the question
In a word  we relaised our atheletes are still at risk and we realised we must act to do out utmost to stop what happened to us ever happening again to anyone.
 
We are now big enough and old enough and have the time and money to make this happen ,  On our site we have now almost 500 Votes cast - when will the RYA executive stop hiding and agree to meet us on this key issue and to discuss it?  
At the November RYA  AGM - we made our case clearly - and the Council reviewed our outlined points and threw them all out we were not offered to make our case in person and our feedback of what was said - is shall we say far off the point.
Our various written requests since for a meeting at the RYA have not met with the courtesy of an answer.   
Will we have to call an EGM just to get a meeting between the RYA and its erstwhile team?  how bizarre would that be~?
?


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 11 Apr 12 at 8:20am
Thank you - that was very clear, and I can see why you are doing it now.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: rogue
Date Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 4:42pm
Sorry, I still see this as a total non-issue for the 21st century.  Quite frankly if the RYA were to exercise a right to boycott, then I have enough faith in them that they are doing it with the best intention- e.g. a macro IOC/Government programme for boycott for a genuine reason within any current political, social or economic context.  

The RYA are the interface between sailors and government and in the grand scheme of things, it's probably  best they retain as much autonomy as possible.  

If this change were tabled as a motion for the RYA membership to vote on, my vote would be against.  Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear, but sometimes being part of Team GB means finally accepting team decisions might not always suit individuals.


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Posted By: furtive
Date Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by rogue

Sorry, I still see this as a total non-issue for the 21st century.  Quite frankly if the RYA were to exercise a right to boycott, then I have enough faith in them that they are doing it with the best intention- e.g. a macro IOC/Government programme for boycott for a genuine reason within any current political, social or economic context.  

The RYA are the interface between sailors and government and in the grand scheme of things, it's probably  best they retain as much autonomy as possible.  

If this change were tabled as a motion for the RYA membership to vote on, my vote would be against.  Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear, but sometimes being part of Team GB means finally accepting team decisions might not always suit individuals.
*steps carefully away from thread*


Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 5:41pm
Thank goodness for democracy votes and free speech.  I have no problem with your view at all - fortunately for us you seem to be the minority view on this - save of course for the RYA Council itself - but I am pretty sure they have not had a fair briefing. 
The big risk I see - is that they get bullied or bribed into a boycott they do not want and have no choice  but to agree.- as in 1980 when they had among other pressures their income from the sports council threatened  - You can threaten councils - harder to threaten athletes.
all the best and thanks for your input  the debate helps us think through all the various issues for when we do sit down with them - as we surely will, one way or another


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: rogue
Date Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 6:47pm
Well good luck Colin. You may well find the RYA Exec aren't too fussed about retainIng it, and if that is their will then I saw no harm in supporting you. I do however think change for change's sake is not necessary, nor do I believe any change will make any difference to the historical record from your own games.

One final point- in an age of rendition do you really think that a (vocally defiant) individual sportsperson's 'rights' are in any way more protected than the team collective would be under the warm auspices of the RYA? I know I don't- in fact I think it would be very easy for a lobby to bribe or intimidate an individual if he or she was faced with such a decision as to participate on not on global socio-political or ethical grounds.

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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 7:17pm
I suppose you could ask "Does the RYA have ownership of the Olympic sailing team, or are they selecting sailors on behalf of the BOA?" If the latter, then their job is done (in terms of decision making) once the team is selected, and I can't see how it is their business whether there is to be a boycott at any point. If the former, then they have the right, I suppose, as things currently stand, whether right or wrong. 

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: DaveT
Date Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 7:35pm
You didn't go to Moscow, get over it, move on. 

Changing rules now, to give a small group of single minded individuals, complete control over any aspect of a governing bodies decision making isnt the right approach IMO. Nor will it change your unfortunate circumstances all those years ago.


Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 9:22pm
Let me try another tack here-  the 1980 team were ''mugged'' in 1980 by politicians mainly - and by the pressure they put on the RYA .
That mugging has left scars that will probably never heal . To one extent - right  live with it.  Well - on that live with it matter - you need to understand what an elite sportsmen sees as his/her Olympic dream and how it affects then when it is lost.  The highest level per 1000 population of suiciides in the UK is athletes.
One 1980 team member is dead from the depression ( I am told that started in 1980)  then suicide who knows if related - some have told me it was - another team member tried suicide and survived,  That person told me clearly his depression  started in 1980.  He now says he is over it.
In this situation when I can see what the Politicians and the RYA did to their team ( and teh RYA added to this by the appalling way they handled the Boycott)  - they Mugged them for short term political gain - and not one Afghan life was saved and not one Russian troop left Afghanistan  they were there for 10 years.
So for me - and yes I had depression as well -  I see also now a duty to try and stop it happening to others.  There have to be less ''muggings''.


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: Jon711
Date Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 10:02pm
To say James was a minority view was very sheltered....   Most of us could not bother posting, about something that happened before we found boats....

I do think that a let sleeping dogs lie attitude, may work.....All your posts have done is (needlessly ) open wounds, that I do not believe were there in the first place....

How can we have to read so many pages over something that happened 30 years ago?

FFS most of this forum (I exclude myself ) weren't even born then..

Sour grapes taste better, when stuffed with a bit of Feta cheese.......

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Blaze 711


Posted By: rogue
Date Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 10:27pm
Colin- it sounds like you all needed some professional help, probably not so easy to come by in 1980. We shouldn't mock any form of mental illness, there's far too much taboo around it even today, but these examples do nothing to further your cause that the athlete is the best placed to decide upon the social, political and ethical impact of flying the Union Jack as a representation of our nation.

Can I say just one thing- please don't waste too much more effort here, you run the risk of seriously opening up old wounds. I would strongly recommend you retire behind a closed door with the RYA- speak to someone who will listen, rather than trying to convince club sailing folks many of whom really don't care and have far bigger stresses in their lives than not getting to go to a sailing championship- and if that sounds harsh, maybe flipant, well it's because you damn well right, most of us will never know what it's like to be so driven at the highest possible level of the sport to put our own desire above the political and humanitarian agendas of our democratically elected leaders. Who whether we like to admit it or not, we have entrusted with our safety, security and tenured position on the global stage. So please, genuinely, save your breath for those paid to listen and action if appropriate.

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Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 11:05pm

Thanks for you comments and advice - the past is the past and can not be righted or changed, but lessons can be learned.

As regards the future  - would that the RYA executives would voluntarily meet us and we could make some progress here.  As they do not offer the courtesy of a reply to our various meetings requests ( they have ''noted'' our points and regard the matter as closed ) We have set up our website   http://www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com - www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com and have had considerable press interest in working to drum up enough RYA and club member support so they will have to meet us and have to have a proper  debate about the rights of their future athletes. Over 400 votes on our petition have been cast by RYA members and club sailors who agree this needs change. We think we need more than this before we again press for a meeting which of course we can insist on with just 50 RYA member votes.  We do not want however to go that route - we want a voluntary meeting.


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 24 Apr 12 at 11:02am
I thought I would add an update here that shows the RAY attitude to this matter
We asked the RYA magazine for a half ppage of PAID space tp put our case to the members, as we have not been allowed to go and put our case and other issues to the council or even discuss it with the executive.
 
They have censored our advert and will not allow it to be published  even though they have not even seen it yet.
 
We are RYA members and life long sailors and they want to silence our views because they do not agree with doing what most athletic bodies have done years ago- and given any boycott decision - other than of course boycott by law - to the athletes.
 
Shame on them?


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: Ads
Date Posted: 24 Apr 12 at 11:09am
Hi Colin.

I understand your feelings about this, but I think as the F1 showed this weekend if there is a decision to be made I think it will go over our heads, and will be made by the BOA with pressure from the government.


Posted By: rogue
Date Posted: 24 Apr 12 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Colin Simonds

 
Shame on them?

no not really.  I can quite understand why from a communications perspective why they wouldn't allow advertising that could do more harm than good, especially for something they may see as a 'non issue'.




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Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 24 Apr 12 at 1:39pm
You may be right about BOA  but for the record  in 1980 BOA offered to support us to go without the RYA money and blessing if the RYA would confrim to them in writing that we/others  were the selected boats, but despite winning the trials the RYA refused to write that letter and confirm any selection.
Yes the RYA who are primarily a cruising association with no experienced top racing people on the council see I fear Racing as a whole as a sub issue at best
Of course if we call an EGM they will have to send out our circular and proposed agenda and motions to all members, so I wonder if they now are pushing us into this.  60-40  they would win a vote - but at least it gets the case aired properly


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: rogue
Date Posted: 24 Apr 12 at 2:31pm
I think you should do what needs to be done to call the EGM- that is the official process for airing your grievances.  However if you already acknowledge you are likely to lose, really what is the point?

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Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 24 Apr 12 at 3:13pm
I am in no hurry on this call- and times and people change
If we do an EGM it will likely be a  ''once'' event ( unless  they make the result undemocratic eg mail the membership with their views and pleas asking for support, and do not allow us equal access - censoring our advert is  state of this - but there are other rags we can use that many member read)  Personally  I would not call one without the support of most or all the 1980 ''team'' and as  a last resort.  There are motions we can put that we will or should win and some that will be harder  - we need and have easily the 50 members to require an EGM - we are close to 500 votes on our web site.
 
Thanks for your interest and comments


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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 24 Apr 12 at 9:34pm
Go for the EGM or put up.  I'll now to be self-censoring on this issue.  It may only take 50 votes to get an EGM, but 500 is still a drop in the ocean of RYA membership.

I value the RYA's ability to take a stand, do not wish it to spend political capital by not complying with a boycott if asked and deplore your timing which could be a distraction from the business at hand - the Olympic Games.

And I also see this as a classic case of the influence of a vocal minority having the potential to have an excessive impact, as a result of its ability to draw on modern media......but perhaps I shouldn't worry.......500 just isn't very many, and illustrates that this is not really grabbing attention.


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 24 Apr 12 at 10:40pm
If voting papers are sent out, I can see most members being utterly apathetic on the matter- so if you're able to mobilise enough support within the membership, it may well be that a majority of returned papers could come down in your favour.

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-_
Al


Posted By: Colin Simonds
Date Posted: 24 Apr 12 at 11:13pm
There is no intention or plan to call an EGM until the games are over if at all  - I agree - to have one in the lead up to or during the Olympics would be poor timing- in fact as yet we hope an EGM will not be necessary. 

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Colin Simonds
One of 12 Winners of 1980 Olympic trials - but RYA Boycotted the 1980 Games.
Founder member 2012 Anti RYA Boycott Group.
Petition website www.nomoreRYAolympicboycotts.com


Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 25 Apr 12 at 8:51am
......but then the games will be over and you'll lose any of the games hook that you are using to gain publicity now?? Literally no-one would be interested in your cause if this wasn't an Olympic year as people's attention would be drawn to other sailing matters.

I think times have changed since 1980. The world, media and politics are a completely different place now. As mentioned above - look a F1 - their organising body are now happy to send the teams into potentially dangerous places regardless. No political influence there - just cash and sponsors!


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