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Best 2 person small pond class?

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
Printed Date: 18 Aug 22 at 10:58pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y -

Topic: Best 2 person small pond class?
Posted By: TonyL
Subject: Best 2 person small pond class?
Date Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 5:39pm
I'm about to forgo the joys of sailing singlehanded to start sailing with my kids. Now I'm pretty competitive in a Laser on the small pond I sail on, but I can't for the life of me think of anything that meets the following:

    -2 person boat to take a crew weight of around 19-20 stone
    -Low maintenance, ie not wood!
    -Reasonably quick, yes I'm going to be sailing with kids (under 10) so I don't
     want a rocket ship but I'd ideally like to be up with the Laser still
    -My pond is small with plenty of shallow bits and overhanging trees!
    -Likely to sail to PY given the above

Oh and my budget precludes buying new, guess I'm looking at 1500 or under.

I know I should buy a boat thats sailed at my club already, but the only class that half meets me requirement is the Ent which to be honest I've never really got on with.

What do people think?

Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 5:54pm
Laser 2000(probablly out of your budget) or all glass Miracle/Mirror if you can find one.

Bonnie Lass Contender 1764

Posted By: Mike278
Date Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 6:23pm
I sail on a small puddle (8 acres), and the ents and national 12' s are always the boats to beat

Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

Posted By: kasey3000
Date Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 6:37pm

Get a Kestrel....

The optimum crew weight is 146kg, but I have been competitively racing in one since I was 11 years old!...and the person who I sailed with was 10 stone...our weight together was 18 stone.

They are 5000 new, but there are older ones (which are still sometimes quicker than the new ones!) which you can pick up for a few hundred quid.

Check out -   and there is a second-hand list available if you want to check it out..

The PY is 1038, so reasonably quick but not so fast you can't manage with I say I have been racing them since I was 11.

I race at Lakeside SC, in Peterborough, which is 75acres and we have  a Kestrel open once a year....which usually has 10-15 boats, and they fit on it with no they are fine on small lakes!

You can stick a trapeze on them if you want to teach your kids how to use one, but the trapeze is not allowed for racing in opens. They have a symmetric kite which has power in it, but it's not overpowering!

They were only ever made in GRP and the new ones, since about number 1520 or there-abouts, are part FRP - part GRP.

They are a great boat and they are on the up, a very friendly racing circuit if you want to come on the opens!

They have a good fleet of Kestrels at Little Paxton SC, which is full of islands, trees and all sorts of things....and they find the Kestrel is great!

PM me if you want any more info!



49er 908

Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 7:06pm
apparantly kestrels are quite good! N12's or merlins are the way forward on a small pond

Needs to sail more...

Posted By: TonyL
Date Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 7:13pm
Thanks for the replies. The Kestrel is also something I'd thought of as there's a couple of older ones at my club that seem to go pretty well. Mega value boats too.

Nat12 isn't something I'd thought of, wouldn't think I could get a club competitive glass 12 for my budget?  I've seen the odd glass Miracle for 1500 so that or the Kestrel are heading my shortlist at present, though after sailing cramped singlehanders for so long I like the idea of a roomy boat so the Kestrel it might be.

Kasey3000, what sort of budget/sail number etc should I be looking for in a decent club level Kestrel?

Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 7:52pm
Miracle, Kestrel (as mentioned before) or Enterprise are probably your best bet, or if your budget could strech RS200 maybe. 

Shifts Happen

Posted By: KnightMare
Date Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 9:18pm
RS200 was the first thing that sprang to mind when i read that, but Im not to sure if you could get a nice one for your budget. if your lucky and you see one BUY IT. the chances are if you didnt get on with it you could actualy sell it on for more. they are great boats and easy for kids to learn in, but do have a look at the other boats mentioned since their price ranges might be slightly better.


Posted By: kasey3000
Date Posted: 27 Jul 05 at 11:12pm

The Kestrel has been made for around 50 years now, and has been produced by several boat builders and come out of several moulds!

For a Kestrel the most important things are the mast, centreboard and sails....after that it's hull weight, smoothness of the hull and sailing ability!

If you buy a Kestrel, make sure it has an aluminium centreboard....NOT steel!.....the steel ones are awful!...and aluminium ones are about 300 new, so if you can get an old kestrel with one you'll be getting a good one!

Try and get a silver mast, not a gold one....the spreaders will snap the mast in anything above a F4 with sails other than terylene! I wouldn't recommend hull numbers between 750ish and 1300ish....cos the mould was awful and all the boats are soft.The best numbers for older boats is from 300ish up to 750ish....and then from 1400 onwards.

The fastest 2 kestrels I know of are 668 and 1460. I used to race 668, and it was 3rd at the nats in 2002.

Sails.....P&B, hyde, rush are all excellent....there are a few other suits that the Kestrel can have, but I don't have personal experience with I would really just recommend the above!

Look for boats that have the original gelcoat...they will probably be lighter! out for lots of paint on the usually means heavy boats or lots of cracks in older kestrels.

If you can find a boat with an outboard sheeted genoa then that would be excellent for a small lake race!....if you cant fly a kite....the genoa is just as quick downwind as the kite in less than a F2......but above that somone small will struggle to pull it in! an inboard sheeted jib would then be handy!

Hull smoothness is important but not really major unless you want to win the nats!.....don't buy hulls that when you press the hull it bends like has to be quite tough or it will bend upwind in above a F3....which is slow, makes the flow of water unbalanced...which is v.v.v slow!

If you want any more info...just port the questions and I'll do my best to answer!


P.S....thank u for ur input TomG - Dear...but may I point out that Kestrels are still quicker than N12's .....and we still beat the Merlins's downwind at Rutland this year....haha


49er 908

Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 28 Jul 05 at 7:28pm
Sailing up to your yardstick is difficult on a small pond especially if you have a spinnaker.  So what about a Graduate?  Lighter and more nimble than an Ent and a demon boat upwind, good in light winds too.

Posted By: Pondling
Date Posted: 28 Jul 05 at 7:35pm

it depends on the pond - which one do you sail on?

Sailors don't get old!!! They get a little dinghy (or skiff, or yacht...)
Feva 251
RS200 1117
RS200 897

Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 29 Jul 05 at 10:29pm
Grad's are quite nice to sail!

Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club
           RS600 933

Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 30 Jul 05 at 10:16am
My automatic reply would have to be a Firefly, as they are rarely beaten on the water by Lasers in small spaces, but you will struggle to find a decent plastic one for 1500. A faster boat on Handicap, which suits inland waters very well indeed, is the Albacore. In a blow you will struggle at that weight, but for 90% of the time inland you will fly. (On small puddles, spinnakers are fun, but you will rarely see them genuinely paying on handicap.) National 12 also a great boat inland, and for 1500 you will get a perfect non double bottom version which will be as quick inland as a modern one in almost all conditions. Make sure you read the blurb on their site concerning which design to buy. 1970's and 80's Merlins also excellent, once spinnaker work is up to it, but again they will be wooden.

Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 30 Jul 05 at 2:08pm
National 12. ( paper dart / Tigres / Design 8 )

-------------" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group

Posted By: stuarthop
Date Posted: 11 Aug 05 at 5:39pm

scorpion? can pick them up quite cheap some older boats are built from fibre glass as are some of the newer 1s. can take a large range of weights due to the raking rig allowing the mast to be raked back when it gets windy to depower the boat.


Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 12 Aug 05 at 1:57am

I have been sailing with my son (now 7) for the last 2 years in a 420.

At first glance it would appear to meet your needs...

Posted By: Olly4088
Date Posted: 12 Aug 05 at 8:22am

Originally posted by KnightMare

RS200 was the first thing that sprang to mind when i read that, but Im not to sure if you could get a nice one for your budget. if your lucky and you see one BUY IT. the chances are if you didnt get on with it you could actualy sell it on for more. they are great boats and easy for kids to learn in, but do have a look at the other boats mentioned since their price ranges might be slightly better.

I totally agree.  I have a 200 and it is great. I sail it with my girlfriend who is fairly new to sailing.  The good thing with the 200 is that even the older ones are totally sound.  I have sail number 207 which in rs terms is the 7th boat and it is still competitive,  Also with 200s there are very few things that have changed over the years.

Phantom 1298

Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 12 Aug 05 at 7:34pm
A nice boat the 200 but no good on small ponds due to asymmetric.  The suggestions of Grad, Firefly, N12 and Albacore are good.  The Scorpion is a lovely boat but again a spinnaker is difficult to use effectively in really confined waters, although symetrical is better than an asymmetric.

Posted By: stuarthop
Date Posted: 12 Aug 05 at 7:52pm
i wouldnt say that i sailed mine at corus colors which is only about 25 acres with no trouble


Posted By: kasey3000
Date Posted: 12 Aug 05 at 9:22pm

I have used my 200 at Lakeside which is 75 acres, along witha  buzz and a you can use asymmetric on small lakes no problem!

As well as long as you know what you're doing, you can sail pretty much everything on a little lake! 18ft skiff mite be the exception!


49er 908

Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 13 Aug 05 at 3:18pm
my old club was about 13 acres and we sailed 200's on there fine, in fact because they had a taller rig than just about everything else (lake was surrounded by trees) they were the most competative boat there. 

Shifts Happen

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