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Tornado Code Zeros...

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Olympic Sailing
Forum Discription: The top end racing in our sport
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4476
Printed Date: 15 Dec 19 at 6:32am
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Topic: Tornado Code Zeros...
Posted By: laser4000
Subject: Tornado Code Zeros...
Date Posted: 10 Aug 08 at 8:50pm
Sounds like this is http://sailjuiceblog.com/2008/08/08/you-can-have-the-code-zero-but-not-the-dolphin-striker/ - creating a lot of kerfuffle. .

I think it's great actually - nothing quite like "grabbing something out of the bag" 1 week before the start of the games and having all your competitiors spitting as they didn't think of it..and it's not like the tornado has one design sails..

After all it's not that new a concept, essentially isn't it similar to what they use on volvo 70s...



Replies:
Posted By: JimiQuik
Date Posted: 10 Aug 08 at 9:49pm
They're never going to use it, it might work in light winds but there is good wind forecast for Friday and Saturday and they will get absolutely thrashed on those days if they decide to go for it. Considering that those are the first two days for the Tornado their regatta will be over before it even starts.


Posted By: Worthy
Date Posted: 10 Aug 08 at 10:28pm
It's all head games, and it seems to be working!


Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 11 Aug 08 at 6:08am
Well if they aren't going to use it, they made a big mistake by measuring it in yesterday...

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Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch"
Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air"
Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"


Posted By: laser4000
Date Posted: 11 Aug 08 at 8:10am
Originally posted by Lukepiewalker

Well if they aren't going to use it, they made a big mistake by measuring it in yesterday...


Interestingly enough USA's measurement day is the day before the start of the event, giving them the max possible time to select which sail to use, the NED was 3 days earlier...


Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 11 Aug 08 at 8:56am
Indeed it is... There were mumblings that Booth was wanting his pushed back but they were having none of it.

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Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch"
Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air"
Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"


Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE
Date Posted: 11 Aug 08 at 12:40pm

Event starts Friday.

Booth measured in on Sunday WITH his code zero

USA measures in on Tuesday

Austrailia measures in on Wednesday

 

Wind for the first 2 days have been downgraded to 12 knots and less.

Bundy and Ashby have apparently also been experimenting with the code zero as far back as 18 months ago.  Expect them to measure in with it also.  They will have the luxury of watching what the US does and waiting the longest for a accurate forecast.



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Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 11 Aug 08 at 1:39pm

This phasing of the measurement dosn't seem very fair; why can't they measure all the boats & sails and then allow them all to finalise the sail choice all at the same deadline.

... or at least keep the choices of the early measured boats secret.



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Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE
Date Posted: 11 Aug 08 at 1:57pm

Originally posted by Guest#260

or at least keep the choices of the early measured boats secret.

 

Very good point and as far as I am concerned would be a very fair request.  Supprised Booth did not try it on.



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Posted By: JimiQuik
Date Posted: 11 Aug 08 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by Lukepiewalker

  Well if they aren't going to use it, they made a big mistake by measuring it in yesterday...


Well bugger me sideways! Thats a bit of a risk innit!? I've heard its not as quick around the course when there is decent breeze has anyone heard different?

Also I was just thinking unless it gets re-instated who ever wins gold could be Olympic Tornado Champion for ever.


Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 11 Aug 08 at 11:08pm
Originally posted by Tornado_ALIVE

Originally posted by Guest#260

or at least keep the choices of the early measured boats secret.

 

Very good point and as far as I am concerned would be a very fair request.  Supprised Booth did not try it on.

I guess no-one ever expected measurement to be such a big issue ... best bit of the games so far as the racing has been dire ...



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Posted By: laser4000
Date Posted: 11 Aug 08 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by JimiQuik

Originally posted by Lukepiewalker

  Well if they aren't going to use it, they made a big mistake by measuring it in yesterday...


Well bugger me sideways! Thats a bit of a risk innit!? I've heard its not as quick around the course when there is decent breeze has anyone heard different?

Also I was just thinking unless it gets re-instated who ever wins gold could be Olympic Tornado Champion for ever.


Are you GRF in disguise?


Posted By: JimiQuik
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 9:52am
Originally posted by laser4000

Are you GRF in disguise?


Ummm No!

Ever since hes been banned a couple of people have been accused of being GRF in disguise. Maybe people are just that desperate for him to come back?

Anyway this thread is seriously in danger of going off topic!... Save that sort of guff for banter!


Posted By: Stuart O
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 10:09am
Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Tornado_ALIVE

Originally posted by Guest#260

or at least keep the choices of the early measured boats secret.

 

Very good point and as far as I am concerned would be a very fair request.  Supprised Booth did not try it on.

  

I guess no-one ever expected measurement to be such a big issue ... best bit of the games so far as the racing has been dire ...



Rick obviously you are not aware of Mitch and his past measurement big issues.... Mitch has this uncanny way of arriving at measurement with something new...this year at the worlds it was his centreboards


Posted By: Stuart O
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 10:11am
Look out for the North sails boats to measure in with a code Zero...ARG and/or GBR


Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 10:13am
Originally posted by Stuart O

Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Tornado_ALIVE

Originally posted by Guest#260

or at least keep the choices of the early measured boats secret.

 

Very good point and as far as I am concerned would be a very fair request.  Supprised Booth did not try it on.

  

I guess no-one ever expected measurement to be such a big issue ... best bit of the games so far as the racing has been dire ...



Rick obviously you are not aware of Mitch and his past measurement big issues.... Mitch has this uncanny way of arriving at measurement with something new...this year at the worlds it was his centreboards

What was the deal with the boards?

 



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Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 11:07am
Anybody know what sail the US measured in today.......   Code Zero????

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Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 11:11am
Originally posted by Guest#260

[QUOTE=Stuart O] [QUOTE=Guest#260]

What was the deal with the boards?

Slighty different shape at the head of the board which completley closed up the centeboard slot when in the fully down position.  Something himself and Johny Goldsmith the class measure have been sparing over for some time now.  Day one of the T Worlds was really cancelled when the tryed to outlaw Booths boards.  He then protested the way board measurments were done at the event, resulting in remeasurements......  Hence the practice day was scraped.

 

The boards were then confirmed to be within the class rules.



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Posted By: Chew my RS
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 11:34am
I'm sure this has been covered before, but can anyone expalin how Booth is qualified to represent Holland when he has previously medalled for Australia and lives (according to the newsapaper) in Spain?

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Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 12:23pm

He changed his middle name to Van

Mitch Van Booth



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Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 12:53pm

Originally posted by Chew my RS

I'm sure this has been covered before, but can anyone expalin how Booth is qualified to represent Holland when he has previously medalled for Australia and lives (according to the newsapaper) in Spain?

Medalling for another country is no impediment- the US Olympic team has several athletes in that position.

I'd assume, then, that he's now a Dutch citizen, but as to the ins and outs of their citizenship requirments, dunno.



Posted By: Worthy
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by alstorer

Originally posted by Chew my RS

I'm sure this has been covered before, but can anyone expalin how Booth is qualified to represent Holland when he has previously medalled for Australia and lives (according to the newsapaper) in Spain?

Medalling for another country is no impediment- the US Olympic team has several athletes in that position.

I'd assume, then, that he's now a Dutch citizen, but as to the ins and outs of their citizenship requirments, dunno.



It is to do with the fact that he wanted to do the Olympics with Herb Derksen (a Dutchman) some years back, and they both had to be the same nationality to sail together.  So they looked at their competitors in Aus and Holland and decided they had a better chance to qualify if Mitch changed his nationality to Dutch.

Or that is the story I have heard.

He lives in Spain with his Spanish wife who he met at the Barcelona Olympics.


Posted By: Chew my RS
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 2:15pm
What a complete farce.  Fair play to him though, he's just using the rules to his advantage (seems to be pretty good at that!)

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Posted By: laser4000
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by Chew my RS

What a complete farce.  Fair play to him though, he's just using the rules to his advantage (seems to be pretty good at that!)


Yeah and what about all the middle distance runners or weightlifters all originally from Kenya or Bulgaria and now fully paid up UAE nationals...

Or erm Kevin Pietersen (England Captain) or erm Greg Rusedski or Zola Budd

or even to bring it back to sailing Natasha Sturgess - sailed for Oz in '96 and GBR in '04..







Posted By: Stuart O
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 5:44pm
Whilst we are on the subject of nations...In the Tornado fleet Carolijn Brouwer represented Holland in the europe class is a dutch ISAF rep and represents Bel at this games...confused!


Posted By: Chew my RS
Date Posted: 12 Aug 08 at 8:09pm
KP never played for South Africa though.  I think that is a key difference.  The UAE comparison is valid, and shows what a stupid system it is.

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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 14 Aug 08 at 1:17pm
So, having upset pretty much all his competitors, destabilised their preparation and generally created chaos in the T fleet, Mitch Booth has measured in a standard kite... Mr Booth is hereby nominated for an honorary doctorate from the http://www.fosteronfilm.com/brit/schoolforscoundrels.htm - College of Lifesmanship ...


Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 14 Aug 08 at 1:21pm

ROTFLMAO

Well done Mitch



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Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 14 Aug 08 at 1:22pm

Originally posted by JimC

So, having upset pretty much all his competitors, destabilised their preparation and generally created chaos in the T fleet, Mitch Booth has measured in a standard kite... Mr Booth is hereby nominated for an honorary doctorate from the http://www.fosteronfilm.com/brit/schoolforscoundrels.htm - College of Lifesmanship ...

Shame really as I would have liked to have seen how they did; has anyone measured in a code 0?



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Posted By: Chew my RS
Date Posted: 14 Aug 08 at 1:31pm
The US have only measured a Code 0, so will definitely be using one. 

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Posted By: Stuart O
Date Posted: 14 Aug 08 at 4:33pm
BIG gamble by the US.... be very suprised if they have only just measured in a code0...would have thought they would have measured in both and looked at the forecast like Mitch has done


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 14 Aug 08 at 4:38pm
Big gamble that they won't be thrown out on protest, I'd have thought. Even if the Chief Measurer has rules it legal, I'll be surprised if red flags aren't going up.


Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 14 Aug 08 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Big gamble that they won't be thrown out on protest,
I'd have thought. Even if the Chief Measurer has rules it legal, I'll be
surprised if red flags aren't going up.


Why? If it measures then it's legal surely? It's just a different cut of spinnaker
that can be used upwind. I'm sure there is nothing in the rules saying that
spinnakers can not be used forward of a certain wind angle.

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Needs to sail more...


Posted By: laser4000
Date Posted: 14 Aug 08 at 5:09pm
Fantastic wind-up by the booth meister..


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 15 Aug 08 at 7:29am
Originally posted by Stuart O

BIG gamble by the US.... be very suprised if they have only just measured in a code0...would have thought they would have measured in both and looked at the forecast like Mitch has done

Can't do that. According to the rules, the second spinnaker that you're allowed to measure in must be given to the measurer at measuring*, and you only get to use it if you trash your first one, and it's a two-or-three race day.

*ugh. horrible, horrible sentence


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 15 Aug 08 at 9:15am

Originally posted by alstorer

Originally posted by Stuart O

BIG gamble by the US.... be very suprised if they have only just measured in a code0...would have thought they would have measured in both and looked at the forecast like Mitch has done

Can't do that. According to the rules, the second spinnaker that you're allowed to measure in must be given to the measurer at measuring*, and you only get to use it if you trash your first one, and it's a two-or-three race day.

*ugh. horrible, horrible sentence

There is enough at stake for the Code Zero to get trashed if the wind looks high for the rest of the week.  Crap drop, sail over it; cut it free.  Cynical, maybe..... 



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Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 15 Aug 08 at 10:42am
So USA came 14th out of 15. The Code 0 didnt work then!

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Needs to sail more...


Posted By: laser4000
Date Posted: 15 Aug 08 at 11:00am
Originally posted by tgruitt

So USA came 14th out of 15. The Code 0 didnt work then!


Prestart we saw flying a hull, which I guess is above the wind range for the 0..

could be a long regatta for the yanks..


Hagara - equally wound up about the issue finished 12th...


Posted By: Chew my RS
Date Posted: 15 Aug 08 at 11:06am
Where were the Brits?

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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 15 Aug 08 at 11:21am
Originally posted by tgruitt

So USA came 14th out of 15. The Code 0 didnt work then!

They rounded the windward 4th and lost 5 places on the first run and two each on the next two. Breeze was on a bit I gather.


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 15 Aug 08 at 7:05pm

Originally posted by Chew my RS

Where were the Brits?

 

6th. 



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
I also talk sport http://www.letshaveachat.com - here



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