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Fastest Cat

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=258
Printed Date: 14 Aug 22 at 4:13am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Fastest Cat
Posted By: redback
Subject: Fastest Cat
Date Posted: 22 Oct 04 at 4:56pm
Does the cat rating system work?  I notice that the fastest cat rates at 0.94 and the slowest at something like 1.78.  That's not such a huge range as the dinghies, but then its probaly quite difficult to make a cat a slow as an Opie.



Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 27 Oct 04 at 12:49pm
As long as the sailors think it does that's all that matters:-)


Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 28 Nov 04 at 4:56pm
yea the cat system is miles better than the RYA yardstick system which is so bad!!!!


Posted By: catmandoo
Date Posted: 10 Dec 04 at 12:39pm

SCHRS rocks !!! (cat rating System )

we have used it for many years and proved itself .

Also it has a huge range too !

0.94 to 1.78 is relatively the same as 940 to 1780 range 840

Py 747 (49er) to 1646 (oppy) range 899

 

 



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Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 10 Dec 04 at 2:59pm

Catmando,

 

I've just plugged the Marstrom M18 into SCHRS (without detailed mesasurements) spread sheet, length, 78Kg, 15 sq main and 15sq kite and it is coming in at 0.92 - Faster than a Tornado 2001 !

 

what is the slowest cat BTW ?



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Posted By: catmandoo
Date Posted: 10 Dec 04 at 3:43pm

I've seen some cooky cats on the net , reckon slowest would be something inflateable and from russia , not a blow up doll.

With semi real hulls , hobie 14 can go pretty slow in light , Newcat 12's

there was even some terrible cats about with picnic baskets moulded into deck !

There used to be a ??? with tripod mast

 

Bigger challenge to find slowest I reckon.

 

Saw M18's look pretty cool , though hulls look a tad dated . want one !

 

Think it would be a tad stretched allround to sail off .92 .

 

It will be interesting to see how the rest of the A's get on with kites, after all the M18 has never won a major championship in A class .

According to Y & y Clive Everest is still struggling to make his flyer competitive with spin .

Light boats with low handicaps can do the biz in light winds , but when the wind gets up and relative speeds of HP cats start to converge low handicaps are killers. excepting of course the Tor 2001 just seems to win all round.

 

 

 



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Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 10 Dec 04 at 4:10pm

The M18 does not rate as an A class.  It has too much mainsail, too wide and a kite.  If/when the A class goes to a Kite, all the hull shapes (IMO) will change again as there will then be a (renewed) requirement for more volume up front. 

 

I spoke to Goran (Marstrom) yesterday and I am not sure if he has actually sold many M18's as he heeded to think about that the retail price was.  Anyone lend me a few 1000 Euro's ?



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Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 10 Dec 04 at 8:39pm
More volume up front? Tornado sailors here are telling me the kite means they need less volume up front, due to the lift of the kite. Dunno who's right, but I think people are voting with their pockets by lifting the price of skinny-nosed Whites v fat-bow Marstroms. BIKFAAI.

The Tornado wins all round, AFAIK, because they whacked on a kite, a big main and an extra trap and only had their handicap (out here) cut by 3%. It seems ridiculous, if we put just a kite on we lost 2-3% AND do better than non-kite boats. They're quite happy to tell everyone how much faster they are now (didn't Forbesy do just that in an earlier post Simon put up) but then they'll tell the handicapper they're only 3% faster.


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 10 Dec 04 at 10:25pm

My point was that us single handed car sailors need a little more 'safety' room In my opinion, as it gets very busy sailing with the kite up on your own and a little more volume up front can be useful in the 'Oh S**t' moments when caught too far forward.  Also, buy simply putting the kit on you are moving the Centre of balance forward, yes, I know you should get plenty of lift from the kite, but when you het theat nast moment with all that sail up, i'll be voting for more volume (for now at least). Maybe I am wrong, time will tell. Not planning to buy an a cat, but I'd love a M18....

Pls explain what BIKFAAI means

BTW tornado dropped from 100 to 95 (over in the UK on SCHRS), I make that a 5% drop.  No idea what the PY did. 



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Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE
Date Posted: 11 Dec 04 at 12:17am

Originally posted by Chris 249



The Tornado wins all round, AFAIK, because they whacked on a kite, a big main and an extra trap and only had their handicap (out here) cut by 3%. It seems ridiculous, if we put just a kite on we lost 2-3% AND do better than non-kite boats. They're quite happy to tell everyone how much faster they are now (didn't Forbesy do just that in an earlier post Simon put up) but then they'll tell the handicapper they're only 3% faster.

Hi Chris,

The T dropped from a yardstick of 69 to 66 initally in Oz which is a drop of 4.35%...... or 3 points not 3%.  The T is now at 65 which means it has dropped 5.8% from the original 69 of the classic rig.



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http://www.formula18alive.com - www.formula18alive.com


Posted By: catmandoo
Date Posted: 11 Dec 04 at 6:45pm

Scooby I think you missed my point.

from Marstroms own site

"Marstrom M-18

The Marstrom M 18 is a turbocharged version of the already extremely quick http://www.marstrom.com/administration/Boats/acat/aclass.asp - A cat . Read the A cat article to get a more compete picture of the boats."

My point was that the m18 is a developement of their A class , same hulls etc with additional beam ,Sail area and kite which we all know no longer makes it an A .

I still think it would be very interesting to see similar developement of the most potent A currently  the Flyer ,

 

 



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Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 11 Dec 04 at 8:23pm

after all the M18 has never won a major championship in A class 

[pedant mode = on]

You own words above state that the M18 has never won a major championship in A class, thus implying it's an A class.  My comments were correcting the fact that an M18 could never do this as it is not an A class.

[pedant mode = off]

I understand what I think you are saying that the Marstrom A class has not won anything, I can only agree as I've not checked.  I still want an M18 if I can find around 16K spare somewhere (GBP).



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..


Posted By: catmandoo
Date Posted: 13 Dec 04 at 9:57am

Sorry I should have said the Marstrom A from which the M18 was developed hasn't won any major events , this snippet of info was gleaned from A chat rooms etc

 

Still if the M18 is built like they build a Tornado (and I'm sure it will be) it must be something special ,

as Andy would say " I want one"

 

Me too

 

Need to win some readies on lottery first though !

 



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Posted By: Doctor Clifford
Date Posted: 13 Dec 04 at 10:13am
Mr. Catmandoo. Surely your childrens rock band will
earn you enough readies for a new boat soon?!!!!!

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regards
Dr. Clifford

take two tablets twice daily


Posted By: catmandoo
Date Posted: 13 Dec 04 at 10:17am

How did you know about the band ?

 

Will have to sell the 5.9 to finance it !

 



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Posted By: Lucy Lee
Date Posted: 13 Dec 04 at 11:41am

oooh, it's like a different world on this thread. I have to admit I am completely ignorant of a lot of this cat chat.

Could someone explain what the A-class is? And how your formulas work? Do your SMODS (hobies? Darts?) fit into the formula system? That would be very neat

Thanks



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Fly Cherub!


Posted By: catmandoo
Date Posted: 13 Dec 04 at 12:16pm

Yup it's neat

All cats should be able to be handicapped it's just a measurement formula which when calculated gives a handicap which can be used in similar fashion to PY,s

Infact you can even tap into spreadsheets and adjust sail areas , weights etc and see immediately what effect it has on your boat.

Origionaly I think it was intended for fairly handicapping production classes and not intended for one offs , but seem to cater for this now. You can add a kite , bigger kite, smaller sails whatever you like and go off and race with your new handicap.

You could scour a second hand bin of cat bits and put a mogrel cat together of various bits , measure it and hey presto the formula kicks out your handicap and off you go. Robin Smith was the Saint who worked hard on the introduction of the system in uk and perhaps still admins it , he could say more I'm sure.

Most of all it has proved its self to be fairer than PY (in my eyes) which relied on human beans to feedback and annualy adjust published handicaps , the facility to arbitarily adjust handicaps at club level exists , but rarely implimented. But this is a can of worms !

 

with SCHRS you put the numbers in HCAP out no arguement (!)

A class cats ?

They are singlehanded cats with a box rule , 18' long 7'6" wide 14m 2 (ish) sail area inc mast (and boom ?) and a minimum weight .

They are a developement class and have become the RR of Singlehanded cat sailing and were untill recently without question fastest single handed cats in the world, they have a very tall high aspect main which makes them supremely effecient up wind , coupled with very light construction (but now also reliably robust ) go like sh1t off a shovel. They are refined , well balanced and a joy to sail. They are to single handed sailing what the New Tornado is to Double handing.

The recent developement of single handed cats (not A's ) with kites(assymetric spinnakers)  has seen much debate within the A class as these new 2 sail boats are being developed to go much faster off wind and what will happen in the future will be very interesting.

The marstrom M18 seems to be taking the developement of such boats further.

I wonder if our boat building genius John Pierce of Stealth cats is having similar ideas and I haven't seen his new slant on the A yet .

 



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Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 13 Dec 04 at 1:49pm

for an explanation of how it works

 

http://www.schrs.com/ - http://www.schrs.com/



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