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Race Results System

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13876
Printed Date: 05 Jul 22 at 4:28am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Race Results System
Posted By: Chris_H
Subject: Race Results System
Date Posted: 01 Dec 21 at 4:36pm
I seem to remember this topic was discussed some time ago, but I simply cant find it.

In any case, I am looking for a software solution that incorporates:
SignOn/Off by app/mobile - selection of boat/crew from membership/boat list
Start/Finish times
Results by Class/PY Group

We already use Sailing Club Manager for membership and Sailwave for current race system - but Sailwave is quite complex and not the best for the occassional volunteer/dutyman PRO .

Any thoughts on the best all-in-one solution out there?



Replies:
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 Dec 21 at 7:06pm
https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13586&title=simple-club-sign-on-off-app

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Robert


Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 01 Dec 21 at 8:44pm
Starcross have a system that does what you are asking.  Mark who wrote the program follows the forum.

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Happily living in the past


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 02 Dec 21 at 7:23am
Originally posted by davidyacht

Starcross have a system that does what you are asking.  Mark who wrote the program follows the forum.

Thanks.  Thumbs Up   Which Mark is that? 






Posted By: IanCherrill
Date Posted: 02 Dec 21 at 10:14am
I normally lurk without posting, but I'll put my oar in as I am the author of Boat Timer which does do online sign-on and results. It was primarily written to time finishes quickly, as that is not the easiest thing to do with pen&paper in a busy club race...  http://www.rotor-rig.com/apps/boat-timer/" rel="nofollow - https://www.rotor-rig.com/apps/boat-timer/




Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 02 Dec 21 at 10:19am
Originally posted by IanCherrill

I normally lurk without posting, but I'll put my oar in as I am the author of Boat Timer which does do online sign-on and results. It was primarily written to time finishes quickly, as that is not the easiest thing to do with pen&paper in a busy club race...  http://www.rotor-rig.com/apps/boat-timer/" rel="nofollow - https://www.rotor-rig.com/apps/boat-timer/



Thanks Ian. Looks interesting. Could you tell me which clubs (regularly) use it please? Reference cases are always useful  ;-) 


Posted By: IanCherrill
Date Posted: 02 Dec 21 at 12:12pm
The app is free and doesn't require you to sign up, so it is not easy to tell. I have had emails from a number of clubs who were/are using it - including some in Aus & NZ - but can't say for sure.

The online sign-on & results are fairly new, I tried out the results at the Frensham 2.4mR Open earlier this year (results are https://boattimer.com/results/?club=frensham&event=3221bc96-573f-4b83-bb7b-f627937a2430" rel="nofollow - here ). The results system works out races& series with very little effort. At the moment the results system assumes you are using the app to time finishes, but this winter (cos I sail a bit less!) I am working on a separate results system that lets you type in finish times/positions instead. Who knows if it will catch on, but it would be nice for clubs to have a simple way to do results.


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 02 Dec 21 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by IanCherrill

Who knows if it will catch on, but it would be nice for clubs to have a simple way to do results.

Hence my search  ;-)
Surprised its not on every sailing clubs agenda.
 




Posted By: IanCherrill
Date Posted: 02 Dec 21 at 12:22pm
Not everyone is keen to give up pen&paper - and I have a lot of sympathy for that. But I do this stuff so we can all spend more time sailing and less time doing the admin Smile


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 02 Dec 21 at 3:34pm
My home club has systems in place but this looks perfect for my holiday club. Thumbs Up

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: NickM99
Date Posted: 06 Dec 21 at 10:54am
Someone at our club remembers talking to another club which had something a bit like the Sailracer system where, when  you sign on, you sign out a GPS beacon which then becomes associated with your boat for the day.  Apparently it facilitated doing results and worked well.  Does this ring a bell with anyone?


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 07 Dec 21 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by IanCherrill

The app is free and doesn't require you to sign up, so it is not easy to tell. I have had emails from a number of clubs who were/are using it - including some in Aus & NZ - but can't say for sure.

The online sign-on & results are fairly new, I tried out the results at the Frensham 2.4mR Open earlier this year (results are https://boattimer.com/results/?club=frensham&event=3221bc96-573f-4b83-bb7b-f627937a2430" rel="nofollow - here ). The results system works out races& series with very little effort. At the moment the results system assumes you are using the app to time finishes, but this winter (cos I sail a bit less!) I am working on a separate results system that lets you type in finish times/positions instead. Who knows if it will catch on, but it would be nice for clubs to have a simple way to do results.

I tried to get it to run in my old iPad with no success, will try Chrome but not a fan of Google really. I dug out an old Android tablet, loaded Chrome, downloaded the app and am now playing with it but it doesn't always respond to inputs, particularly I'm unable to change the handicap system (or actually choose one) as it isn't accepting input from the touch screen?



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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: IanCherrill
Date Posted: 07 Dec 21 at 5:30pm
Hi Sam - I wrote an intro to Boat Timer ( https://www.rotor-rig.com/2020/06/08/boat-timer-where-do-i-start/" rel="nofollow - here ) that talks about different devices. Apples support for modern web standards is a long way behind Googles, and although you may get it to work on an iPad certain parts won't work (eg export to file), though I have used it for a race and it worked well enough. I am not sure how old your Android tablet is but you will need an up-to-date version of Chrome for it to work well. I tend to use a newish Samsung tablet or a Windows 10 laptop. The Samsung was used for a 2.4mR open a few months ago as we were recording finishes from the committee boat (all touchscreen stuff). To get perfect support for iPads would require writing a native app in Swift (very time-consuming) and paying the good people at Apple about 100/year which for a free app is a bit painful - I have a Solo I bought a few weeks ago that I need to spend money on Smile


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 08 Dec 21 at 10:11am
Hi Ian, Thanks for the reply, The iPads I would take on the beach are, unsurprisingly, old ones*, I did try Chrome on the iPad 2 but, as with Safari, I got a blank screen with just the 'Boat Timer' header bar and the footer bar with the option button and time display all completely unresponsive. I'll try it on the iPad 3 but it looks like it's a non-starter on them. The 'droid is an oldish ASUS Nexus 7 running Android 4.2.2, it seems to run ok on that with the glitches in responsiveness. I'll try to update it to a more recent 'droid OS.

Assuming I get it working on an Android device I would have a feature request, namely for integration of the 'Signals' and 'Boat Timer' apps so I could set a Start sequence going manually and have it count up from the first start gun. If that is not possible then a manual start button in 'Boat Timer' would be useful.

* Totally understand where you're coming from WRT not porting it to iOS, the fruit are not renowned for their support of small developers Unhappy


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: IanCherrill
Date Posted: 08 Dec 21 at 11:04am
Thanks Sam - the original Timer had the Signals app as part of it, so I understand why that could be useful. However the newest Signals app controls a relay via USB, so that requires a native Android app and a web app (for laptops) to work correctly. So I am glad the Timer and Signals apps are separate now otherwise the technical side would get tricky. Plus most clubs need a way to automate race signals, but not all want to record finishes on a computer. Anyway, hope you get to try Timer when you upgrade - always interested to hear how it goes.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 08 Dec 21 at 3:36pm
Does the Boat Timer app have an option to manually start timing rather than scheduled starts only?

WRT to Signals, I have a Raspberry Pi3 so might build a start timer separately, my holiday club does not do 'proper' racing and wives and friends usually start the races (beach starts), log laps and time the finishes so an automated system would be very useful. Is the old build of Timer still available? 


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: IanCherrill
Date Posted: 08 Dec 21 at 4:59pm
Hi Sam - Timer records finish times (and optionally lap times). You can specify a start time (and change it after the race if needed) and those things are used to calculate the results. So you don't need to start the timing as such, just press a button for each boat as they cross the finish line. The intro video on https://www.rotor-rig.com/apps/boat-timer/" rel="nofollow - the Rotor-Rig page probably explains it better.

I have not tried a Pi with Signals yet, but as Raspbian can run the Chromium browser it stands a good chance or working. It certainly works on Ubuntu and Chrome on a laptop, which is similar tech. Let me know how it goes. If I get some time I have a Pi3 somewhere and might give that a go myself.

Sadly the original Boat Timer that had Signals integrated is not available - it was long ago and would not work on a modern system, plus the option to connect a proper hooter system up via USB cable and a relay didn't exist then.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 08 Dec 21 at 6:06pm
Shame I can live without the automated hooter but getting the 'RO' to synchronise the start sequence to a fixed starting time sounds like a real nightmare scenario. A manual start button in Timer would remove the problem of getting them to either start the countdown exactly 3 mins before the scheduled start or remember the exact, actual, start time after the race Stern Smile

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: IanCherrill
Date Posted: 08 Dec 21 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Shame I can live without the automated hooter but getting the 'RO' to synchronise the start sequence to a fixed starting time sounds like a real nightmare scenario. A manual start button in Timer would remove the problem of getting them to either start the countdown exactly 3 mins before the scheduled start or remember the exact, actual, start time after the race Stern Smile
I can honestly say it hasn't been a major problem. It is not too hard to change the start time in Timer (otherwise general recalls would be a bit of a trial!).  At the start of the race once you have the race entries there is not much to do til the end of the first lap, so I just change the start time in the app to match the actual start time. The reason I wrote it was a different nightmare, which was lots of boats heading to the finish line and all you had was a clock, a pencil and a piece of paper to record all the finish times. It is one of those things an app is good at - I am not sure I have it right yet, but having used it in a busy handicap race with 30 odd boats I know it can be very useful.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 08 Dec 21 at 10:34pm
My use case is a bit specific though, I need a system that doesn't require the 'RO' to do anything except press the start button and log laps and finish times. I'll be racing so rely on the race team to log laps and finish times accurately, this is by no means assured as they are not sailors so I'm trying to find a completely foolproof method. My home club has a dedicated hardware system which works well but still relies on pen and paper to record sail numbers even though finish times can be stored for review.



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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 09 Dec 21 at 11:20pm
Sam,

DSRC?


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 Dec 21 at 10:25pm
Sorry Brass, maybe it's too late at night but please explain further?

Edit:- Ah "Dedicated Short Range Communications" Thumbs Up I suspect you haven't understood the situation, We are a very informal 'club' with no membership list, rules, premises or any of the usual accoutrements, just an informal arrangement that we meet on the beach a few weekends a year to race for fun. The 'race team' comprises of whoever is prepared to stand on the beach for a couple of hours to help start the races and record finish times, usually the wives, friends or girlfriends of the sailors. It works very well mostly but reducing the effort required of the 'race team' will make it easier to a/ find one, and b/ get reliable results. 

WRT DSRC, I will be racing and while I could remind the 'race team' to record the correct/exact start time I'm unlikely to have time during the start sequence and after that a reminder may well be fruitless. 


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 10 Dec 21 at 10:31pm
Deck chair, sunscreen, relax and....

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Robert


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 Dec 21 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by 423zero

DSRC dedicated short range communication.

Thanks, See edit above...


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 10 Dec 21 at 10:46pm
Sorry, too cryptic.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://play.google.com/store/apps/details%3Fid%3Dcom.g0hyn.DSRC%26hl%3Den_IE&ved=2ahUKEwjfmZGup9r0AhWxumMGHbI1C7YQjjh6BAgZEAE&usg=AOvVaw2Eiphwma3lcD_hEZaaoggu


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.facebook.com/groups/Dinghy.Sailing.Race.Control.Group/&ved=2ahUKEwjfmZGup9r0AhWxumMGHbI1C7YQFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3OaCwZ-P0y-fa68_b_GPPo


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 11 Dec 21 at 4:32pm
Ah, thanks I'll give that a try, it does mean I'll have to resurrect my Google Play account and also take my 'droid tablet away with me while visiting family this weekend but that's all fine Thumbs Up

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 11 Dec 21 at 7:34pm
Works OK on 5 in phone.

Require a few smarts to input the CSV files, and select the defaults but check in, starting and finishing are very simple.



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