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New Olympic events.

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13063
Printed Date: 23 Jul 19 at 6:55pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: New Olympic events.
Posted By: 2547
Subject: New Olympic events.
Date Posted: 14 May 18 at 6:44pm
Kites in, 470 goes mixed and the Finn of course survives as some sort of contrive mixed team event. 

Windsurfers get new toys. 



Replies:
Posted By: furtive
Date Posted: 14 May 18 at 7:36pm
Not sure you're looking at the final list - sailing.org reports that new classes are Mixed one person dinghy, mixed two person dinghy, mixed kite.

Not sure how you fit a Finn in there (but also not clear what mixed one person means - moth of some sort??)


Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 14 May 18 at 7:56pm
Look at the full text of submission 22. 

Mixed single hander retains the men’s equipment. New equipment for the women. Some sort of relay race one assumes. 


Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 14 May 18 at 8:44pm
http://sailing.org/news/86947.php#.WvnsY4rTWf0" rel="nofollow - http://sailing.org/news/86947.php#.WvnsY4rTWf0



Posted By: furtive
Date Posted: 14 May 18 at 8:58pm
Amazing how unclear they manage to make it! Some more detail/speculation here... http://www.sailweb.co.uk/Olympic/30156/world-sailing-council-retain-finn" rel="nofollow - link


Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 14 May 18 at 9:12pm
When was a lightweight woman considered as sub 70kgs. 


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 14 May 18 at 9:16pm
I'm probably going to get in trouble for this thought, but does a 'mixed single hander' mean there is finally an event for the ladyboys people keep referring to?

More sensible would be two-boat team racing with one male, one female, but sense does not seem to have any place in all this dumbing down. And even then, how can any boat selected accommodate both big guys or small women.

On the mixed two-hander, unless its twin trapeze or both hiking, simple physiological statistics suggest you will surely nearly always end with female helm, and a bloke on the wire. 

Seems to me that the muppets voting for all this are totally clueless. Just imagine the furore if it was decided to chuck out boxing and judo, but combine all combat sports and make them mixed tag-team. Oh, hang-on, they probably already have that on US TV

Hopefully, they've f**ked things up sufficiently that sailing falls out of the Olympics altogether. Let the kites and SUPs have it. I still believe its a force for bad, not good for the sport.


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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 14 May 18 at 9:37pm
So I read that there would be equipment trials for the mixed singlehander.

Has the Finn bitten the dust - there’s no way that can possibly be taken seriously as a mixed event?


Posted By: salmon80
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 2:35am
Originally posted by turnturtle

So I read that there would be equipment trials for the mixed singlehander.

Has the Finn bitten the dust - there’s no way that can possibly be taken seriously as a mixed event?


Finn will never bite the dust. It was "open" before becoming the "heavy weight dinghy"

Finn is too powerful. It will appeal to all courts that will listen, UN court of human rights, failing that it will burn down world sailing HQ and knee cap all the exec commmittee


Posted By: GG NHRC
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 6:30am
No provision for large blokes to sail? 




Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 6:48am
What is maximum feasible weight for Laser ?


Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 7:04am
Mixed singlehander is men in Finns and women in another class in what one assumes will be a relay race. 


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 8:00am
Originally posted by 2547

Mixed singlehander is men in Finns and women in another class in what one assumes will be a relay race. 

or combined score I guess.  It'll be interesting to see what craft WS select... I guess they could just re-use the Laser Radial entrant, giving her two medal opportunities?  


Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 8:08am
Mixed singlehander is men in Finns and women in another class in what one assumes will be a relay race. 

No, the WSC has consulted GRF and it will be run as a handicap race.



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Peter
Ex Cont 707
Laser 189635
DY 59


Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 8:18am
https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/205261/Paris-2024-Events-confirmed" rel="nofollow - https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/205261/Paris-2024-Events-confirmed

So Laser and Radial both remain, but equipment for review (new rigs?)
49er and FX remain
Nacra stays too.
Finn stays, but they will race in a two boat mixed event? 
470 Men; changes to women helms I guess? 
470 women makes way for kitesurfing in some unknown format. 

The mixed male and female pairs in finns and something else... I can't think how the format will work without the format feeling like two separate events stitched together. 

Not sure how I feel about kitesurfing. From what I've watched it seems very different from any sailing I would recognise, and while undoubtedly a cool sport my impression is the racing is a very small niche. Makes you feel sorry for sports like squash which have a huge history and good participation, and yet can never make it to the Olympics.  


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Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 8:32am
Its a fair point on Squash Mozzy - but then raquet sports in general have had a hard time at the Olympics, I think tennis only got back in recently!! No idea why that is


Posted By: Ardea
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 8:40am
Could mixed singlehander be keelboat based?  That could minimise any physical differences? Mini Transat 6.50 would be interesting!


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 8:58am
Originally posted by Ardea

Could mixed singlehander be keelboat based?  That could minimise any physical differences? Mini Transat 6.50 would be interesting!

and be much more expensive than an already costly Finn, 470, whatever, when one of the (audible) goals is to make sailing more accessible to emerging nations




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Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 9:04am
Originally posted by Ardea

Could mixed singlehander be keelboat based?  That could minimise any physical differences? Mini Transat 6.50 would be interesting!

That might make sense. However, if you scroll down to the table (in the link above), the mixed single-hander replaces the men's heavyweight event. In the right hand column for this event it says the men's equipment will be retained (finn) and new equipment selected for the women single-hander. 

I read that to mean that the mixed singlehander event will be in two sets of equipment, one boat for men, and one boat for women. Then result merged, either by pooling scores or out on the water in a relay race. Either way, it would feel a bit contrived. 

I would much prefer a mixed event by offshore keelboat like you suggest, although I suspect too expensive for the Olympics. My preferred option would be team racing with mixed boats. Mixed boats are fairly common to a very high level in team racing already, so it wouldn't feel forced in anyway. 


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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 9:07am
Aero 5 or 7 maybe.... speculation, speculation.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 10:11am
Where does it actually say the Finn is still in? Maybe I scanned it too quick, it's not really that relevant to my world, agree Kites is a mistake, there is no actual genuine racing kiting population certainly not here in the UK, other than Steph Bridges and her kids hence why they monopolise it and frankly racing kites is about as dull a thing you can do with them. Not that I think it should be part of the five ring circus in any form and there will be legal challenges to World Sailings right to say it should.

Other than that their stated aims all seem purposeful at least, they're trying to get sailing more accessible and that's a good thing, the way it's set up right now is ridiculous as I've said time and time again.


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Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 10:18am
Originally posted by iGRF

Where does it actually say the Finn is still in?




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Posted By: iiiiticki
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 10:22am
If you want the Olympics, as the pinnacle of the sport,to feel more accessable then allow more than one boat per class per nation.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 10:22am
Its difficult to understand these proposals without knowing exactly what they are getting from the IOC, and the IOC policy changes every few years, and I can't really be bothered to keep up any more. But mixed events involving two competitors in two different boats sounds, frankly, even more ridiculous than the foiling monohulls for the America's cup. You've got to wonder what guidance they are getting, since my understanding was that amongst the key drivers were widening the number and geographical spread of nations competing, reducing the number of competitors and keeping the medal count down, and I am yet to understand how this will do any of those, especially the first, since a requirement for two competitive boats and sailors in two classes is only really going to be met by the usual first world suspects. However I might be out of date with those aims...

Has anyone seen anything highlighting how this mixed one person dinghy event is supposed to work?


Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 10:32am
Originally posted by JimC

Has anyone seen anything highlighting how this mixed one person dinghy event is supposed to work?
New Mixed One-Person Dinghy Event - it is important that the events at the Olympic Games enable a wide range of physiques and weights to compete. Retaining the Finn dinghy would maintain the opportunities for men in the range of around 90kg plus, and give a new opportunity for women weighing around 70kg to compete.
The name of the event “Mixed One-Person Dinghy Event” is a suggestion, and may of course be changed at a later date to a name which works within the entire package of names for the ten events.
The Mixed One-Person Dinghy Event concept of a mixed team event will create a new innovative approach for dinghy sailing at the Olympic Games, and will not discriminate countries which, for social, cultural or religious reasons, may not be able to support two athletes of different gender competing in the same boat.
The Mixed One-Person Dinghy Event would offer flexible and multiple race format options.

Sooo... no format decided yet. But it will keep the finn as equipment for men over 90kg and have separate equipment for women around 70kg, so that countries that can't put women and men in the same boat for "social, cultural or religious reasons" can compete. 

I wonder if the winning pair who can't sail on the same boat for religious or cultural reasons will receive their joint medals on segregated podiums? Will the world lose it's sh*t if they hug and congratulate each other on their success? 



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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 10:36am
Stoopid idea, may as well just have 11 sailing events. 

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Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 10:37am
Originally posted by iiiiticki

If you want the Olympics, as the pinnacle of the sport,to feel more accessable then allow more than one boat per class per nation.

and then do you encourage or try and stop team-racing?


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Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Stoopid idea, may as well just have 11 sailing events. 

in 2016, swimming had 34 events, 17 for men and for 17 women (no mixed relays, note)

Various forms of fighting - boxing, fencing, judo, taekwando, wrestling had 13, 10, 14, 8, 18 events respectively, total 63!

There are 16 kayak events

Why is sailing under pressure to keep the medal count down to 10 when theses others give them away like confetti?


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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 11:00am
Disappointed Olympic committee intend to reinforce segregation policies of certain groups.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 11:06am
Still discriminatory how can you have a competition that encourages clinical obesity and half the world couldn't consider entering.. heavyweight mens one person dinghy, may as well say Rich 1st world heavyweight mens sailing event the rest of the world need not apply.

Still it could be like wrestling and a Tag team style event

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Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 11:33am
Originally posted by iGRF

Still discriminatory how can you have a competition that encourages clinical obesity and half the world couldn't consider entering.. heavyweight mens one person dinghy, may as well say Rich 1st world heavyweight mens sailing event the rest of the world need not apply.

Still it could be like wrestling and a Tag team style event

Clinical obesity - now thats a joke-measureand you know it. Virtually every member of an international rugby team is theoretically obese on that crap NHS measure and there's hardly an ounce of fat on most of them nowadays.

The downwind rowing in a Finn means it's all muscle. Stop trolling just because you are of jockey-stature


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Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 11:35am
iGRF - on this I disagree - I am 93kg and six foot. I like running half marathons and most weeks run an average of 20 miles in addition to lifting weights three times a week. I know what the NHS says my weight should be and I am classed as "Overweight" but I also know what my measured BMI is and I can assure you I am not overweight! If you want to have an arm wrestle whilst we discuss the point I would be happy to watch you squirm :-)


Posted By: seasailor
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 11:59am
Not only did swimming have 34 events, but in how many of those 34 did the one in the middle lane win?

What makes swimming good tv, but sailing not?

As for all the sports that involve one competitor doing something that looks exactly like what the last competitor just did, but being judged by a panel to have done it ever so slightly better!


Posted By: iiiiticki
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:06pm
It's just that all those Olympic hopefuls going through the squad system have little hope. Also as some may know I am connected to the Byte fleet 70kg? Most of our girls are way below that...it's 11 stone!


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:06pm
So, if this mixed event is some sort of strange relay, or adds up the points from both to give a medal, how does that reflect the existing sport at all? Bad enough that we have massively minority foiling cats, but no majority participation keel boat, but inventing events is just plain odd.

I'd support kites at the Olympics, but for an event where judges decide who has done the best daft thing, or even for speed trials. My limited understanding is that people who kitesurf like to either go fast, jump in the air or both. Racing like dinghies do sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: iiiiticki
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:10pm
And encourages larger ladies...


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:10pm
Isn't this mixed podium going to look a bit strange? If they choose a boat that suits very light women, it will look like a dad and daughter race at sports day.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:15pm
It will just be totally separate events - men in Finns and ladies in TBC - then the scores will be added

Mickey mouse way to keep two sets of sailors involved into one event

Will the superstars be interested unless they have an equally good partner ?



Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:30pm
Plus don't forget the Laser, Laser Radial (and RS:X) are all under an anti trust review at present so could all be thrown out and new equipment would then be required for those events.

Edit: Although why they are persisting with the review when the Windsurfing event will have new equipment anyway is a bit of a mystery.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR188
Ex Rooster 8.1 '11'
Ex Laser 167534
Ex Blaze 655


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:31pm
RE the Finn again and other world competitors where their average weight is well below what is required to pilot that fat persons tub with or without the necessary muscle? It is discriminatory by it's very nature.

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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by rich96

It will just be totally separate events - men in Finns and ladies in TBC - then the scores will be added

Mickey mouse way to keep two sets of sailors involved into one event

Will the superstars be interested unless they can get gender re-assigment surgery in time ?



FTFY

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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by rich96

It will just be totally separate events - men in Finns and ladies in TBC - then the scores will be added

Mickey mouse way to keep two sets of sailors involved into one event

Will the superstars be interested unless they can get gender re-assigment surgery in time ?



FTFY

surgery not relevant as long as they identify differently.


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by rich96

It will just be totally separate events - men in Finns and ladies in TBC - then the scores will be added

Mickey mouse way to keep two sets of sailors involved into one event

Will the superstars be interested unless they can get gender re-assigment surgery in time ?



FTFY

surgery not relevant as long as they identify differently.

Grumpf identifies as a different species, does that mean he can apply for his own event Big smile


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR188
Ex Rooster 8.1 '11'
Ex Laser 167534
Ex Blaze 655


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:35pm
Thought it was based on millions of pounds per medal chance?
Just realised I am mixing lottery funding and the way Britain picks it's athletes with IOC


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by rich96

It will just be totally separate events - men in Finns and ladies in TBC - then the scores will be added

Mickey mouse way to keep two sets of sailors involved into one event

Will the superstars be interested unless they can get gender re-assigment surgery in time ?



FTFY

surgery not relevant as long as they identify differently.

Grumpf identifies as a different species, does that mean he can apply for his own event Big smile

I think you meant to use the word "superior" rather than "different" there mate.


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by rich96

It will just be totally separate events - men in Finns and ladies in TBC - then the scores will be added

Mickey mouse way to keep two sets of sailors involved into one event

Will the superstars be interested unless they can get gender re-assigment surgery in time ?



FTFY

surgery not relevant as long as they identify differently.

Grumpf identifies as a different species, does that mean he can apply for his own event Big smile

I think you meant to use the word "superior" rather than "different" there mate.

Tomato tomayto...same difference


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR188
Ex Rooster 8.1 '11'
Ex Laser 167534
Ex Blaze 655


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:46pm
LOL - true, and it'll all be based on a benchmark of a Laser at a mythical "1,000" Grumpf Points


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:51pm
Loads of Kents moved to mid Wales, sold up and purchased cheap houses, they tend to drink beer and eat pickled eggs with cheese and onion crisps, well the men do, not seen any female Kents.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Loads of Kents moved to mid Wales, sold up and purchased cheap houses, they tend to drink beer and eat pickled eggs with cheese and onion crisps, well the men do, not seen any female Kents.
Confusing us with Essex's, no cheese, onion or pickles dine here, strictly winemaking country these days and whiners..

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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 1:02pm
You don't eat pickled eggs in Essex, it's all about the gherkins ... colloquially known as a 'wally'.


http://www.kgbanswers.co.uk/in-a-chip-shop-why-is-a-gherkin-called-a-wally/2169237" rel="nofollow - http://www.kgbanswers.co.uk/in-a-chip-shop-why-is-a-gherkin-called-a-wally/2169237


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 1:44pm
It could be a relay with pass the baton, combined elapsed times, separate races with points, who knows. And if the relay does the slow boat go first or the fast? Or maybe there's a choice? Once you've decided to invent a new format who knows what will go on...


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 2:10pm
"It's a Knock-out" - or for Brexeters - "Jeux Sans Frontieres"


[TUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2bTwSfWtsE[/TUBE]


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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by JimC

It could be a relay with pass the baton, combined elapsed times, separate races with points, who knows. And if the relay does the slow boat go first or the fast? Or maybe there's a choice? Once you've decided to invent a new format who knows what will go on...

Are you suggesting the forum tone should reject standard cynicism and favour an optimistic outlook that the televisual entity won't just look like grandpas in neoprene with inappropriately dressed "glamorous assistants" in the new girlie boat?




Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by JimC

It could be a relay with pass the baton, combined elapsed times, separate races with points, who knows. And if the relay does the slow boat go first or the fast? Or maybe there's a choice? Once you've decided to invent a new format who knows what will go on...

Are you suggesting the forum tone should reject standard cynicism and favour an optimistic outlook that the televisual entity won't just look like grandpas in neoprene with inappropriately dressed "glamorous assistants" in the new girlie boat?



You'll like it...not a lot...but you'll like it....


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Paul
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Ex Rooster 8.1 '11'
Ex Laser 167534
Ex Blaze 655


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 2:35pm
Oh lordy

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H2 #115


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by jeffers

 

You'll like it...not a lot...but you'll like it....




Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 2:43pm
The red wetsuit is OK, but the boots won't give much grip.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 3:43pm
The weight of the frame will bring her up to 90 kgs.
Don't want to cause any controversy, but, the only sensible route is PY, Great lakes version, or Olympic style.


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 3:46pm
good luck with that ;-) most sailors don't understand it, never mind Josephine Public.  And those sailors who do finally "get it" (Graeme's not there yet, bless), either accept it for it is or call it out for being a sh*te way to run competitive racing.  


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 3:51pm
EPS, would have worked well.
Talking sailors weight and boat PY, plus marks from a judging panel, we can all see when a boat is sailed well,pick up the wind shifts, faster route to the mark.


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by 423zero

EPS, would have worked well.

yep- about right for 70kg.  Perhaps they could run it in low rider moths....?  All the old boys who wax on 'bout low riders seems to need Kleenex when the term "skippy" is mentioned.  Let's put the girls in "skippy moths"... whatever the f**k they were.  


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 4:58pm
I don't know but they made a funny noise and bounced around a lot.........

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: L192444
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 5:01pm
70kgs is Radial weight ....

2 medal opportunities for the ladies?


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 5:36pm
Sam,
You forgot about rescuing people from mines.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 5:42pm
LOL so I did..... (and he was a Shelia BTW).

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Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 5:43pm
I'll bet off set he was best buddies with that bloody Dolphin..... They pretty much spoke the same language.....

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Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 15 May 18 at 8:32pm
Extreme thread drift right there, Dolphins and Kangeroos LOL 
World sailings lack of transparency and apparent common sense to blame, if they read this forum, I would exam some of the information they are releasing, they are becoming a laughing stock.
I believe their dithering around weight and gender could be answered by Keel boats, perhaps commission an Olympic Keel boat ?


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 4:44am
How about a graceful classic ....the Star ?


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 6:30am
The Star is a great boat, but too expensive for 3rd World countries, World sailing would be far too embarrassed, blatant display of affluence.


Posted By: Alistair426
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 6:34am
Any of this 'new equipment' is going to require development. Even if kit is 'supplied', there is the inevitable pre-event development process of making sure you can optimise your standard kit at the event. And a new event format...there will be a whole programme for working out whether it is better to have a fast woman and 'blocking' male (we don't know the format so M and F may be on the water at the same time) or two 'equal' competitors. Guess what? The countries that can afford the money for these development programmes will not be the likes of the Peoples' Republic of Congo but the same old sail codes. Which countries will set up bases at the forthcoming venues 6 yrs in advance? Who will have tiered squad systems to develop athletes? These changes aren't going to alter the pecking order, just the shape of the chickens.


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 8:05am
Originally posted by 423zero

The Star is a great boat, but too expensive for 3rd World countries, World sailing would be far too embarrassed, blatant display of affluence.

"3rd world" really.....are you still calling them "darkies"????


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H2 #115


Posted By: L192444
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 8:59am
How can WS select an event that no-one seems to know what it actually is?


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 9:00am
Originally posted by L192444

How can WS select an event that no-one seems to know what it actually is?

It's quite simple - it really doesn't matter as long as the Finn retains some kind of slot.  


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 9:12am
The history of the phrase 3rd World started in WW1 it referred to countries that didn't align with the Allies 1st World or Axis 2nd world, purely coincidental that vast majority of 3rd world countries also happened to be the poorest, "developing countries" as a term is also frowned upon, but doesn't have the history of the phrase 3rd world, both phrases are accurate and descriptive of impoverished countries, likewise India is a 2nd World country again accurate.
I am not going to quote your very descriptive word, I probably used this word when I was younger and probably worse, but I now know they are wrong.


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 9:41am
Originally posted by 423zero

I probably used this word when I was younger and probably worse, but I now know they are wrong.

as does Wing Commander Guy Gibson, you are in fine company.


Posted By: L192444
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 9:49am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by L192444

How can WS select an event that no-one seems to know what it actually is?

It's quite simple - it really doesn't matter as long as the Finn retains some kind of slot.  


Silly me ... I had overlooked that requirement ...


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 10:23am
Originally posted by 423zero

The history of the phrase 3rd World started in WW1 it referred to countries that didn't align with the Allies 1st World or Axis 2nd world, purely coincidental that vast majority of 3rd world countries also happened to be the poorest, "developing countries" as a term is also frowned upon, but doesn't have the history of the phrase 3rd world, both phrases are accurate and descriptive of impoverished countries, likewise India is a 2nd World country again accurate.
I am not going to quote your very descriptive word, I probably used this word when I was younger and probably worse, but I now know they are wrong.

I think you should go stand in the middle of Kabera slum with a board saying "You all live in the 3rd World" whilst I take bets on how long you will keep your clothes. Please stop defending your pocket racism, its just pathetic.


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H2 #115


Posted By: L192444
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 10:27am
Originally posted by H2

Originally posted by 423zero

The history of the phrase 3rd World started in WW1 it referred to countries that didn't align with the Allies 1st World or Axis 2nd world, purely coincidental that vast majority of 3rd world countries also happened to be the poorest, "developing countries" as a term is also frowned upon, but doesn't have the history of the phrase 3rd world, both phrases are accurate and descriptive of impoverished countries, likewise India is a 2nd World country again accurate.
I am not going to quote your very descriptive word, I probably used this word when I was younger and probably worse, but I now know they are wrong.

I think you should go stand in the middle of Kabera slum with a board saying "You all live in the 3rd World" whilst I take bets on how long you will keep your clothes. Please stop defending your pocket racism, its just pathetic.


Can we not use the term 3rd world now? When did this become so and who decides these things?



Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 10:29am
Originally posted by H2

Originally posted by 423zero

The history of the phrase 3rd World started in WW1 it referred to countries that didn't align with the Allies 1st World or Axis 2nd world, purely coincidental that vast majority of 3rd world countries also happened to be the poorest, "developing countries" as a term is also frowned upon, but doesn't have the history of the phrase 3rd world, both phrases are accurate and descriptive of impoverished countries, likewise India is a 2nd World country again accurate.
I am not going to quote your very descriptive word, I probably used this word when I was younger and probably worse, but I now know they are wrong.

I think you should go stand in the middle of Kabera slum with a board saying "You all live in the 3rd World" whilst I take bets on how long you will keep your clothes. Please stop defending your pocket racism, its just pathetic.

Perhaps 423zero could sharpie it on the base of a new Neil Pryde RS:X foiling board just to keep it relevant ;-)


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 10:32am
Originally posted by L192444

Can we not use the term 3rd world now? When did this become so and who decides these things?

Hadron sailors in the Cotswolds it seems.

It might be a bit old fashioned, maybe colonial, and I wouldn't use it in business when discussing emerging markets (euphemism for corporate imperialism in some circles), but I personally wouldn't define it or anyone who uses it as a racist.  


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 10:38am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by L192444

Can we not use the term 3rd world now? When did this become so and who decides these things?

Hadron sailors in the Cotswolds it seems.

It might be a bit old fashioned, maybe colonial, and I wouldn't use it in business when discussing emerging markets (euphemism for corporate imperialism in some circles), but I personally wouldn't define it or anyone who uses it as a racist.  

Simple test - you travel to a country that is not your home - would you use that term? If you cant understand that someone from a "3rd World Country" might be offended then there is probably no point in us continuing to discuss the topic and I should leave you all to go read your copies of the Daily Mail and mumble into your beards about Johnny Foreigner coming over here and stealing our jobs.


-------------
H2 #115


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 10:48am
So, that would also dictate that my frequent use of the self deprecating term '1st world problem' I aim at SWMBO to avoid tasks I deem irrelevant to the given moment must also be racist.. Dear dear I must learn to keep up, is there an instruction manual? PC for unreconstructed dinosaurs?

Edit.. so what does the panel feel about the term 'Gammon' and it's obvious application to the Finn class association?

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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 10:54am
Originally posted by H2

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by L192444

Can we not use the term 3rd world now? When did this become so and who decides these things?

Hadron sailors in the Cotswolds it seems.

It might be a bit old fashioned, maybe colonial, and I wouldn't use it in business when discussing emerging markets (euphemism for corporate imperialism in some circles), but I personally wouldn't define it or anyone who uses it as a racist.  

Simple test - you travel to a country that is not your home - would you use that term? If you cant understand that someone from a "3rd World Country" might be offended then there is probably no point in us continuing to discuss the topic and I should leave you all to go read your copies of the Daily Mail and mumble into your beards about Johnny Foreigner coming over here and stealing our jobs.

I guess it depends on whether it's one those places that David Cameron & Nick Clegg pledged to spend 0.7% of GDP on foreign aid?   Personally I take no racial connotation with the term "3rd World" and frankly there are parts of the UK I would define as nothing short of it... have you even been to Rhyl?  


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 11:16am
Originally posted by iGRF

is there an instruction manual? PC for unreconstructed dinosaurs?

Of course not. The publishing cycle would be too short, and besides, how could the PC look down on the unPC if PC language was formally documented and anything but a continually moving target...


Posted By: L192444
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 11:26am
Originally posted by H2

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by L192444

Can we not use the term 3rd world now? When did this become so and who decides these things?

Hadron sailors in the Cotswolds it seems.

It might be a bit old fashioned, maybe colonial, and I wouldn't use it in business when discussing emerging markets (euphemism for corporate imperialism in some circles), but I personally wouldn't define it or anyone who uses it as a racist.  

Simple test - you travel to a country that is not your home - would you use that term? If you cant understand that someone from a "3rd World Country" might be offended then there is probably no point in us continuing to discuss the topic and I should leave you all to go read your copies of the Daily Mail and mumble into your beards about Johnny Foreigner coming over here and stealing our jobs.

That seems a very extreme view to take; I think you must be an extremest ...



Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 11:33am
iGRF,
About the same as FD Gorillas
TT,
Rhyl, that's in Wales, never, north too, full of scousers, forget about it.


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 12:05pm
rumour on SA thread suggests the Europe Class will get the Cillet Bang treatment....

I guess it would accompany the Finn quite well as a bit of a museum side show act.


Posted By: JL
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 1:23pm

With respect, I think you may have got your history a bit muddled here. I believe the term ‘third world’, or rather ‘le tiers monde’, was first coined by the French economic geographer Alfred Sauvy in 1952 in a gesture of solidarity with those countries that had recently achieved or were still in the process of achieving their independence from the European colonial powers. Sauvy was drawing an analogy between the third world and the third estate, or ‘le tiers état’, that is to say all those who, under the French ancien régime, being neither clergy nor nobility, had few or no rights or privileges. At the time of the Revolution of 1789, winning equal rights for the third estate was a key political goal, as expressed, for example, in the Abbé Sièyes’s famous 1789 pamphlet, Qu’est-ce que le tiers état? Implicit in the term ‘third world’ was hence the notion that, like the third estate in 1789, the countries concerned were being unjustly deprived of equal rights. As a result, through the 1960s and 1970s various left-wing anti-imperialist and anti-racist movements emerged which were often categorised as ‘tiers-mondiste’ or third-worldist. Forum readers may remember the 1970s Jamaican reggae band, Third World, whose name was surely an expression of their commitment to those tiers-mondiste ideals, in their case a kind of anti-racist pan-Africanism rooted in their Rastafarianism.

It’s true that the term fell into disrepute thereafter, I believe because it projected a questionable uniformity onto the wide variety of countries in question, while implying they were all characterised by an inherent inferiority in comparison to the so-called ‘first world’. Nonetheless, it is surely unfair of H2 to imply there is any equivalence between the term ‘third world’ and a blatantly racist slur like ‘darkies’. To claim any such equivalence is to risk overlooking the close association between the term ‘third world’ and the history of radical anti-racist and anti-imperialist movements in the C20th.

-------------
JL


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 1:38pm
JL,
correct, I have muddled Cold War up with 1st World war, 1st World = USA UK and allies, 2nd World = USSR, China etc, 3rd World = Non-aligned countries.



Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by 423zero

JL,
correct, I have muddled Cold War up with 1st World war, 1st World = USA UK and allies, 2nd World = USSR, China etc, 3rd World = Non-aligned countries.


and to muddy the waters further I was taught in school that the 3rd world was also known as the developing world. Referral in the news at the time to 3rd world countries was very common.

Anyway....have we not drifted so far off topic we are almost back on it?


-------------
Paul
---------------------------
D-Zero GBR188
Ex Rooster 8.1 '11'
Ex Laser 167534
Ex Blaze 655


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 2:23pm
I made an attempt get back on topic with the SA rumour, but let's be honest any boat called a "Europe" sounds a bit western-centric anyway.  

The yanks won't like it, not that they're ever in contention of winning anything sailing related, so not really sure what gravitas they hold. 

The Aussies and Kiwis won't like it either.  But they can at least sail, so we best take note.

I'm not sure what the 'emerging nations' think about it.  (And I'm not sure what they're exactly emerging from, but association that it's from the dark is best avoided in case H2 blows a gasket).   

Boris will tell us it's 'crazy', so no ... 

 WS will need to re-brand the Europe dinghy for it have any chance of success.


Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 2:28pm
Where did the Europe rumour come from (pre-SA)? What's the source? 

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RS800 1144


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 2:29pm
Dave Clark's post:

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/198366-world-sailing-vote-proposal-m36/&do=findComment&comment=6215333" rel="nofollow - http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/198366-world-sailing-vote-proposal-m36/&do=findComment&comment=6215333


Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 2:51pm
He references the front page, but I can't see any reference to the Europe there. 

The https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/205270/Finn-Class-statement-on-Olympic-events-selection" rel="nofollow - Finn put out a press release with * next to the 70kg weight, suggesting this would be reviewed. If that's the case and a lower weight is selected then I wouldn't rule out the Europe, but I'd imagine there would be a multiple boat trials. 

I was just wondering is there was a more reliable source than his interpretation of the front page. 


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https://www.youtube.com/user/656mozzy/" rel="nofollow - YouTube Channel
RS800 1144


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by mozzy

I was just wondering is there was a more reliable source than his interpretation of the front page. 

nope - this is the internet LOL


Posted By: carboncopy
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 3:15pm
Perhaps the Finn will do for the mixed racing too. Add an upper weight limit of 18st and an unlimited number of crew! Two European sized ladies, 3 leprechauns or 1 Ben.
Problem solved at no costSmile


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 3:39pm
I don't doubt the Europe will try to get back in, and it would look better to have two similar boats. Foe example Byte CII and Finn racing on the same course as the same event- if that's what they end up doing - would not be a great look. If you exclude the radial because its already there, and the 4.7 because its a horrible out of proportion mess, there aren't too many other candidates.

The whole equipment evaluation/monopoly supply thing has't been talked about much yet, but I reckon that's got potential to cause a lot of disruption too. There's a definite anti SMOD lobby in ISAF, judging by some submissions I've seen, and there's also legislative considerations. Add to the the very odd way Laser Performance have been treating their Class Associations lately, and there seems to me to be enormous potential for trouble. It all depends, I think, one whether this reval turns out to be mainly a rubber stamp affair, or really root and branch recopnsideration of supply. I have no idea which it might be!


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 3:51pm
Nothing at all on Europe website.
Why go back to boats you have already dropped, commission a new design or try one of the new designs, H2 looks good or for a true leveller one of the rotomoulds.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Nothing at all on Europe website.
Why go back to boats you have already dropped, commission a new design or try one of the new designs, H2 looks good or for a true leveller one of the rotomoulds.
Why not? When you're still using museum pieces that should have been dropped decades ago.


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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 16 May 18 at 4:14pm
Back to that submission 18-22 which states Mixed One person dinghy event with the Finn claiming the heavyweight mens again and women being directed to equipment suitable for 70 kg women which again is diabolically discriminatory.

Theoretically they should not define Gender, and both craft should be open to all genders, it's as antiquated as that damned Finn, defining that all people 70 kgs should be female.

I'm deeply offended.

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