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Have you ever snapped, or bent beyond repair?

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12226
Printed Date: 19 Aug 22 at 1:55pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Have you ever snapped, or bent beyond repair?
Posted By: 2547
Subject: Have you ever snapped, or bent beyond repair?
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 4:26pm
Given how rough and wild it is out there I was wondering if you had ever snapped a mast?

Give the gory details if you like?

I have ... dug it in the seabed whilst inverted ... Ouch



Replies:
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 4:57pm
More than one, I'm sad to say. Snapped the odd boom or 2 as well.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 4:58pm
Yes 2 505 masts were written off within a month! not popular with my insurance company.
First one the forestay snapped and the mast went at desk level. I was on the wire and we were hardening up.
Second one capsized coming ashore at Eastbourne in no wind only for a freak wave to capsize the boat onto the beach mast first!

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Gordon
Lossc


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 5:06pm
2 laser top sections, 1 RS600 and 2 windsurf masts...


Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 5:09pm
National 12 + boom, Merlin Rocket, Cherub and 12ft Skiff going upwind.

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Needs to sail more...


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 5:12pm
Not a mast, but two mast stumps, and at least one boom as far as I can recall.


Posted By: salmon80
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 5:47pm
Lightning mast, top section of carbon cracked and bottom alloy bent ;(


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 6:42pm
The boy has done 3 Topper bottom sections, all off the start line as I recall.


Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 6:45pm
snapped a kestrel mast, in a squall on the Blackwater - pretty much the whole fleet was flattened,

 also more than one laser topsection

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Posted By: Emilio Castelli
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 6:47pm
Yep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmC2UyCQJO8

E


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www.castellivineyards.com


Posted By: Wiclif
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 6:48pm
1 Enterprise mast, 3 X 505 masts, 1 Laser 2000 mast, 1 Laser 4000 mast, 1 Laser topmost, 1 each Laser and 505 booms, 3 windsurfing booms. That's all I can remember at present!

Both dinghy booms happened after a windward capsize when I was pulling the boom down from being stuck in the air, and it didn't like it.

I can remember a friend who broke 2 X 505 masts in fairly quick succession and he said thank goodness I have just paid my insurance for next year. ( this was some time ago). He then got a letter the next week from the insurance company that went something like " you know that clause in the policy where we can cancel your insurance at any time. Well, how's the time)


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 6:51pm
Not snapped one, but bent one double.


Posted By: Alistair426
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 6:53pm
Broke a GP14 mast at the Endeavour way back in the mists of time. Unfortunately, the owner of the boat was out on one of the spectator boats and saw it crumple. Moral of the story...don't try to get a GP14 full of water up on to the plane!Embarrassed


Posted By: realnutter
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 7:44pm
I put a beautiful 90 bend in one of my school's 420 masts when the windward shroud pulled out of the gunwale while on a screaming broad reach.. fortunately my crew was not out on the wire at the time!


Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 9:30pm
One Graduate mast back in 1986 while leading the Northerns at Crosby SC.
A 49er rev9 top mast during a mid hoist capsize.

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OK 2129
RS200 411


Posted By: chris_wht
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 11:11pm
couple of laser top sections
moth mast went over the side when the hounds fitting came unglued, and snapped at the bottom as it got caught in the compression strut on the way down.
rs600 rig went over the side when the foredeck unpeeled from the hull!


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Posted By: iiiiitick
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 11:35pm
Two Tasar topmasts. One when it hit a buoy on the way down and one where it stuck in the mud. The 'former boy' when he was 18 at Cotswold. Lightning open choppy and windy. He won two races but gybed after the second one and the mast broke. Three races one discard....so that was all right then! He also seriously bent a B14 mast at Carsington.


Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 18 Nov 15 at 11:38pm
I've broken two laser bottom sections, but no top sections strangely

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Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 8:59am
Originally posted by Emilio Castelli

Yep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmC2UyCQJO8

E



Classic ...


Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 9:14am
Originally posted by realnutter

I put a beautiful 90 bend in one of my school's 420 masts when the windward shroud pulled out of the gunwale while on a screaming broad reach.. fortunately my crew was not out on the wire at the time!

You know, if your crew was out on the wire that probably wouldn't have happened....


Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 9:32am
Banana-shaped the M7 on my Furball through trying to plough the English Channel with the mast tip. It doesn't work - you can't plant your veggies and it's a one-time tool :-(



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Nick
D-Zero 316



Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 11:36am
My mates shroud cap on his proctor phantom went meaning the shroud wasn't doing quite as much as it should have done in a capsize and it bent at 9 degrees

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Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 11:36am
I snapped a fairly new windsurfer mast sailing in a straight line on flat water. It just went, most unexpectedly, not even at an obvious stress point.


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 1:18pm
I snapped a 100% carbon pryde windsurf mast just above the clamp- similar flat water, not even that windy.  It was about 2 months old and probably used about 4 or 5 times, I'm not naive, manufacturing defects can occur, and this was clearly just a dodgy one.  

I took it back within warranty to the shop I bought it from, admittedly on discount, who promptly said it was sold as seen sale item as it was last seasons.   Needless to say, several stroppy emails later and I got a replacement FOC.  I sold it immediately, along with my other NP equipment, and then bought a full quiver of North sails and masts, from a different retailer naturally....


Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 2:22pm
Looks like there has been quite a bit of carnage out there ...

Does the insurance typically pick up the bill or do people consider this just general ware & tear and buy new masts themselves?


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 2:32pm
A lot of times the insurance companies pick up the bill. There have been occasions where classes have become so notorious for breaking masts they've become difficult and expensive to insure.


Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by JimC

A lot of times the insurance companies pick up the bill. There have been occasions where classes have become so notorious for breaking masts they've become difficult and expensive to insure.

I would guess that 99 times out of 100 the insurance company picks up the bill assuming the rig was insured.

Given that the vast majority have broken rigs (which are not cheap) seems so surprise that insurance is not cheap ...

I wonder if the introduction of carbon rigs has increased or decreased failure rates ... ??

Also, as carbon can be repaired does that change the cost of ownership and premiums?


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 2:53pm
I'd claim for dinghy masts, but snapping windsurf ones is just wear and tear....  I tend buy windsurf masts with decent warranty periods these days.  


Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 2:57pm
I thought I'd have a little dabble on this page to see how rig fragility seemed to come through on insurance:
https://www.noblemarine.co.uk/dinghyinsurance.php3

You can tinker with that page and it is quite interesting; clearly Noble group boats into categories.

If you get a simple quote for an 8k boat with no trailer, trolley or outboards you get the following:

Safe as houses 131 = Solo, Wayfarer
Safe but not bullet proof 150-188 = 29er, 420, Cadet, RS200, Laser II,
Middle of the road 265 -303 = D1, 470, Fireball, Musto Skiff, Moth, Merlin Rocket, RS400
High risk  409 = RS700, RS800, Finn, 505, 49er

Surprises? 

Moth; they seem to break their stuff all the time but I suspect they limit their claims.
Musto 100 less than a RS700 ... ??
Finn ... seems expensive for something that seems pretty robust ...


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 4:11pm
Worth remembering that one injury claim is worth an awful lot of mast replacements.

I don't know I'd want to state that the vast majority have broken masts, we could be looking at self selection. Certainly don't get that many at my club.


Posted By: blueboy
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

I'd claim for dinghy masts, but snapping windsurf ones is just wear and tear....  I tend buy windsurf masts with decent warranty periods these days.  


Likewise. It never even occurred to me to claim for the broken windsurfer mast.

I think small insurance claims just tend to give you an advance on the replacement cost that you are going to pay back in increased premiums.


Posted By: Big-C
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 5:02pm


About 2 seconds after this was taken 45 feet of aluminium came raining down, in 3-4 ft chunks
If you look closely at the pic you can see it is already failing/kinked above the lowers

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Little America's Cup C-Class K19 Emma Hamilton
A-Class Unicorn 1085
Merlin Rocket NSM2
SeaRay 260 OV


Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 6:27pm
Seem to remember a Neal Macdonald quote "a mast is fastest just before it breaks"

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Happily living in the past


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by JimC

Worth remembering that one injury claim is worth an awful lot of mast replacements.

I don't know I'd want to state that the vast majority have broken masts, we could be looking at self selection. Certainly don't get that many at my club.


Agree, breaking masts is rare, even in Lasers. Suspect either we sail more than average, or more likely stories of "I didn't break my mast" aren't good reading.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 6:45pm
Well, for balance, I haven't posted on this thread before, because I didn't think my experience isn't really exciting enough! I've managed to bend Laser topmasts a couple of times, but only by a small amount, so straightened them myself. I've once managed to bend both top and bottom mast together in a Laser, rolling it the shore break at Eastbourne. I've also once rolled a Contender under the same circumstances and got away with it, though a friend was not so lucky a week or so later. Over the past 10 years of paying insurance policies for 2 boats I've claimed back one Laser mast (both sections - bent on Sunday and sailing again on Wed, thanks to Noble). I reckon I'm not too bad a risk!

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Peter
Ex Cont 707
Ex Laser 189635
DY 59


Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 19 Nov 15 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by JimC

Worth remembering that one injury claim is worth an awful lot of mast replacements.

Indeed; thankfully I have never heard of a personal injury claim on a dinghy policy and long may that remain the case.


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 20 Nov 15 at 8:34am
Originally posted by ??
Finn ... seems expensive for something that seems pretty robust ...
[/QUOTE


]

The high Finn cost is really because of the cost of a new mast - 3,000 and u


The high Finn cost is really because of the cost of a new mast - 3,000 and upwards. In reality they rarely break during normal sailing


Posted By: Fraggle
Date Posted: 20 Nov 15 at 12:08pm
As an ex laser sailor it goes with the territory that you are going to snap spars.

2/3 radial bottom sections. (On one of these safety took quite a while to realise why I was waving at them as I was upright and they completely missed the lack of a big flappy white thing)
2/3 booms
2 top sections. (Ridiculously one of these was practicing roll tacking in less than 5 knots and I had a brand new sail on)

As I sailed lasers for about 20 years I think I did fairly well. That total isn't including the many spars that were binned as being too bent to be worth keeping though.


Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 20 Nov 15 at 12:45pm
Like many here I have had a couple of Laser mast breaks, one my doing, one down to a clash between me (upwind) and a boat approaching downwind that broached.  I've snapped N12 and MR mast sections before too.  The worst culprit for 'design problems' was the Laser2 mast; two for me but I've seen countless at opens and summer regattas.  Usually by tipping in with the kite up or running into the next wave with the kite up, but they were fragile if you had a clash of masts too (saw a few in the starting area but avoided that fate myself).

One thing that gets overlooked in the whole "big fleets are best" argument oft tripped out on these pages is the likelihood of having your pride and joy bashed by someone else in these 'big fleet' events goes up very sharply when numbers get above 40-50 on a start line and, before someone says it, yes I've also witnessed crashes on gate starts too (though thankfully only once it was me when I hit the guard boat during a youthful topper event at the worlds coldest lake, Grafham).


Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 20 Nov 15 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by getafix

Like many here I have had a couple of Laser mast breaks, one my doing, one down to a clash between me (upwind) and a boat approaching downwind that broached.  I've snapped N12 and MR mast sections before too.  The worst culprit for 'design problems' was the Laser2 mast; two for me but I've seen countless at opens and summer regattas.  Usually by tipping in with the kite up or running into the next wave with the kite up, but they were fragile if you had a clash of masts too (saw a few in the starting area but avoided that fate myself).

One thing that gets overlooked in the whole "big fleets are best" argument oft tripped out on these pages is the likelihood of having your pride and joy bashed by someone else in these 'big fleet' events goes up very sharply when numbers get above 40-50 on a start line and, before someone says it, yes I've also witnessed crashes on gate starts too (though thankfully only once it was me when I hit the guard boat during a youthful topper event at the worlds coldest lake, Grafham).


I thought everyone had hit the guard boat once or twice? I'm guilty of parking an N12 bow on the sponson of one and then getting dragged along with it. Didn't break that mast though!


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Needs to sail more...


Posted By: Gfinch
Date Posted: 24 Nov 15 at 8:27pm
Laser top mast in light airs and laser boom in strong winds after s gybe! 4000 on its first outing (for me) too, as soon as some kicker was put on.

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3513, 3551 - National 12
136069 - Laser
32541 - Mirror
4501 - Laser 4000


Posted By: drifter
Date Posted: 07 Dec 15 at 8:55pm
Bent an Albacore mast when the quadrant lever sheared off. The shroud and attached broken lever took the bullseye clean out of the wooden deck (no deck damage) and whipped up taking the vane off the Hawk on the top of the mast. I reckon I was lucky!

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Stewart



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