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Back on the Lake.

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy Yarns...
Forum Discription: Tell us your sailing stories
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11788
Printed Date: 29 Sep 20 at 4:36am
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Topic: Back on the Lake.
Posted By: iGRF
Subject: Back on the Lake.
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 12:48pm
Starting drinking at 5.45 the previous evening of our laying up supper was probably a mistake, fully realised as the rudder fell off the yards from the shore in an offshore breeze, I really must learn how to make these things work without it. Hitching up the boat, negotiating the lake fortifications, stopping twice as the trailer board fell off, it was always going to be a disaster this return to the lake fray, pitching in with the Miracles, Solos, Streakers, Lasers, Snipes, a 300 and the bandido bros rocking a Buzz about, which seemed strangely out of place and probably the only boat other than a 300 that would be out of place with the rest of Pancho Villas hordes.

In fact it's got so that you really need a kind of anti bandit term for us, it's like chucking a naked virgin into a viking horde, the ravaging we get..

But it did eventually all come good, I somehow got it all together and had a passable start and but for a late shift came very close to rounding first (at least i though I was going to, not so, a gust to the right brought just about all the front runners back and round ahead of me so I had to battle with Miracles being sailed well (and telliing me to stop rocking) Me! a frail old guy who can't stand up without falling over and grabbing the rig now and again hows a fella expected to sail to handicap without the odd ooch & pump like the good guys do?
Nope you're expected to sit there and eat up their 1200 handicap against your 1024 and all your protestations about the EPS class permitting it are null and void because this is a handicap race and it's not allowed! (I bet that doesn't get enforced at the Great Lakes) So I behaved myself eat it up, did eventually get by them all finished about 4th having had a Battle Royale with Gemma in the Snipe with a brilliant finish on her part with a tack to lee bow on a starboard line call, so all in all enjoyable just the same and a good head clearer.

Lots of boats, an old acquaintance from the past punting a Solo around a lot quicker than it should be and a bonus for me in that I finally beat the Rooster 8.1 over the water. The boys did well to pilot a Buzz around with its Assym kite, I've no idea where they finished I can never bear to look at the results, some dozy t*t has printed an article about the Miracle not being a bandit, it is now pinned to the club wall and we're back on National Handicaps.

Everyone is so pleased.

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Replies:
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 12:59pm
Is the Miracle non-bandit article available on-line?  I might need that soon.

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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 2:22pm
We have 2 Miracles at Whitefriars. I'd love to say that 1200 was a bandit handicap (and I really, really think that it is) but the results don't really show that it is - the Lightning has a pretty averagely poor handicap (compared to the Solo) and yet they don't seem to beat us often.

However, good to hear you are back on the pond, Grumph - I've missed the whinging about windshifts and the comments about what would have been if so and so hadn't happened. All you need t do now is try and work out what WILL happen next and sail to that, so you get the "luck".


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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 2:38pm
If the results don't support it, Rupert, how can you believe that is it?  Suspicions about the sailors' abilities, I guess.

Actually, I can believe that 1200 is favourable for a Miracle on a little pond with a tendency to lighter winds, but try it on a tideway where quicker boats are flying uptide unawares, while you're struggling to stem it.

Another example where we do need different numbers for different venues.

I knew we'd soon get this topic onto the PY track!


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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 2:39pm
I think it's that mental dougal dog all suitably outraged for the benefit of the wood botherers he's obviously hell bent on placating, so he can write owner manuals for the luddite. He even mentioned the Hythe incident so clearly a reference to events reported here.

I reminded them the exact definition of a Bandit, which is the combination of good helms and a slow boat more suited to beginners. So it could also be thought of as a back handed complement.

But when every single Miracle well sailed or otherwise beats you, and you have beaten other quite good helms, then you know the truth of the matter and leave with a slightly moral holier than thou grin..

They're Bandits no doubt about it and I'm not, so I can stand in judgement upon them and don't I love that...

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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 2:43pm
I'm not sure whether a "bad helm in a quicker boat" is allowed to make such judgements.

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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 2:56pm
Can't call me that now.. I made top twenty in a 5-6 remember? Oh no you were probably tucked up in bed with ear defenders in case that wind howl frightened you..

That article was in 'the Halo' the Halo is the class bible everything in it is true, if they had an article about Kool Aid they'd queue up to lay down in a circle.

I'd been getting confused about them wittering about this Halo, I'd thought hmm one bandit to another and quipped about 1015 and had it anything to do with Ayatollah the 'Dark Prince' Lyons he who controlleth the Great Lakes system with the power of his mind.

But no, I've just discovered it this very moment on their website, next to the sacrifice your child bit..    

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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

If the results don't support it, Rupert, how can you believe that is it?  Suspicions about the sailors' abilities, I guess.

Actually, I can believe that 1200 is favourable for a Miracle on a little pond with a tendency to lighter winds, but try it on a tideway where quicker boats are flying uptide unawares, while you're struggling to stem it.

Another example where we do need different numbers for different venues.

I knew we'd soon get this topic onto the PY track!


Not even the helming standard - simply the thought that can a boat with added spinnaker really be that much slower than a Firefly? Doesn't "fit" my preconceptions. I can well believe that neither the Miracle nor the Firefly would be quick on the tide, so it is purely an inland thing. I have a feeling that a well sailed Firefly on GRF's pond would wipe the floor with the lot of them, so maybe 1200 not so bad, and it is simply that the rest of them are either muppets or sailing boats which fail to suit the water, neither of which make the Miracle a bandit.


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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 3:41pm
Well the main bone of contention comes from the not so long ago point when they and the streakers got along OK with the Streaker around 1162 and the Miracle was 1178 with the Solo there or there abouts and there is very little to choose between them, but they (the Miracle) have their kite to offset any perceived loss they might make to windward, which ain't that much now they can alter their jib slots significantly due to some change in the class ruling. (I don't know any of this for sure but it's what I hear.) I aint going to beat any of them Solo Streaker, Miracle I'd have to lap them twice and it's difficult often taking at least one lap to get past them if you don't make a good start and get round that top mark clear.

The normal tactical rules don't always apply down there either particularly when the wind is in the North so when they make silly mistakes (like not taking the tack that's taking you closest to the mark) they can still get a 'lucky' break.

The other problem you have with a mono rig is the inability to crank a tactical lee bow onto twin sailed hulls, they still sail all over you, lots of stuff I'm not used to, you might lee bow their jib but their main still shoves them over you, that damn Jenna kept doing it in the Snipe, she's all over me like a bad rash upwind, that's another Bandit at 1080

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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 4:15pm
Your lake appears to be so small that "normal" yardsticks are very likely to be wrong. 3 choices - sail a boat that suits the lake (and will therefore be a "bandit" in your terminology, get the club to alter handicaps (though you don't seem to like this when they change yours, despite it simply being a recognition that an eps can't sail to speed on a puddle, or whinge, bitch and moan.

You appear to have gone for the last option, which might suggest you find this more fun than the actual sailing. Personally, I'd go for option 1.


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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 4:44pm
Indeed it is more fun to whine bitch and moan, point out the f**kedupedness of it all and wind them up with the term bandit.. (You have to remember this is still all relatively new to me and y'all do take your handicaps very seriously, which presents a target rich environment for ironic exchange from a cynical old windsurfer.. ).

You have forgotten option 4.

Make a boat that will cope with it all, lake, sea, not capsize, go fast with a small rig and not make me ache like a demon the next day from all that kneeling down.

So with all that in mind I shall shortly become an official wood botherer I think I have just about finalised a plan and how to execute it with my crude woodworking skills.

Get ready for the V3..

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Posted By: Neal_g
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 5:39pm
just for GRF's benefit

1st miracle
2nd buzz
3rd miracle
4th solo
5th solo

the gap between 1st and 2nd was 2 seconds on corrected and between 1st and 3rd was 7 seconds on corrected

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(Redoubt Sc)
Miracle 4040
GP14 13407

Crewsaver phase 2 range now available to buy online on at http://www.gibsonsails.com


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 6:05pm
Not such a Miracle fest after all - maybe the eps is the only one with a problem?

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 6:12pm
Clearly the Buzz is a bandit as well.

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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 6:28pm
The Buzz must be being sailed by some seriously talented sailors to get that high up the fleet on a tiny puddle - either that or the course contained some perfect reaches for kite flying.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 6:45pm
No, they're half decent jocks the pair of them, doesn't matter what they sail they'll be at the front getting in the way and disturbing the karma of the righteous.

There are a lot of good sailors down the lake, that's why I like it, it's really tight racing, I learn loads down there, but the day will yet dawn.....

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Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 6:49pm
I think GRFs problem is that he has stumbled upon a hotbed of fast miracle sailors (top end of the nationals fleet) The standard of sailing in the top 10 of the miracle nationals is really very good, and would stand competition with any of the more mainstream classes top helms.

Neal-g - why don't you make a fast boat for Nick Craig?


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Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 9:12pm
We have had the discussion on Miracles a few times. The top of the fleet is indeed very competitive and contains many good sailors but the average miracle sailor is clearly not in the same league as the guys at the top of the nationals fleet.
Interestingly our resident Miracle sailors have always performed well and it doesn't get much more tidal than our club, so I'm pretty happy that they behave well in tide and waves. Indeed our top Miracle was often holding the 200s around the course, but having now got a 200 themselves are now in the pack!
In the past Miracles were slower upwind than either Fireflies or Graduates but recovered their losses with the kite up. With the move to in-board sheeting on the jib, they are as quick as a Firefly upwind and yet their handicap has gone the other way.
It's obvious what's happening and makes you think back to the topic about where in the data PYs should come from. In my opinion it's a good argument for using something approaching the faster end of the distribution.


Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by iGRF

y'all do take your handicaps very seriously 

This from the guy who cancelled an order on a boat when he found out that a predicted handicap wasnt favourable........


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by GybeFunny


Originally posted by iGRF

y'all do take your handicaps very seriously 

This from the guy who cancelled an order on a boat when he found out that a predicted handicap wasnt favourable........


Exactly.

So seriously are they taken, we (consumers) now base our purchasing decisions firmly on that, why not? Why dump a perfectly acceptable boat that I enjoy sailing for another one that although I might equally enjoy sailing, it is going to put me at even more of a disadvantage and lighten my wallet by five grand for the privilege ? Nice it might be but it's not five grand nicer, given it lost one of its USP's and I'm not even following the same trend that lead to lots of Phantoms being purchased, 1040-50 wasn't that much of a benefit given it has a smaller sail and is shorter than my current ride and with less righting moment.
By the time it settles and my guess is it'll be 1030-1035 come March, there will be new motorways built and another winter will have flown and it is all Simon Loveseys fault I have decided, he is my new hate figure, denying me a new boat the b**tard.

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Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 5:31pm
 ..... Ayatollah the 'Dark Prince' Lyons he who controlleth the Great Lakes system with the power of his mind.

Absolutely ...and with limited 'thought power' available (it comes to all of us with age of course) for a modest fee what would you like the venerable EPS's 'Great Lakes' number to be ?  Not that I've ever seen one at an SJ event so what is the point ?... And btw and before you get too excited I don't do 'new classes' numbers ... no not for anyone !

Seriously I don't know what you have against Simon Lovesey now - he has not a lot to do with the GL system, and never did.   (But I bet if he put a tracker on you it would be interesting !)

The clubs that pool their results together to create the GL 'adjustments'  are only doing what the RYA want individual clubs to do anyway.  YOU presumably were recently encouraged by Bas to have a 'handicap officer' at Hythe - good move - and the said officer will presumably will modify your local club handicaps in time ?  .. er almost the same maybe ? 

All that the GL system does, and the clubs that use it within the Sailjuice Series do, is make handicap adjustments against their own collective data pool.... Almost EXACTLY what Bas seems to be telling individual clubs they should be doing !  ... and you seem to now believe in (!)...The GL results are used to justify their numbers in exactly the same way as your local results should justify any local changes your club makes.

Only thing is .... YOU really have to race in the SJ series to get them to adjust their numbers and only then if the results justify it ... and they do apply a different weighting and look more towards the front of each class .... but that is not so different to doing it at individual club level by the RYA bible surely ?

See you at Datchet / Grafham / Oxford / QMSC / Northampton etc etc then ? 

Mike L.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 8:26pm
This is why he is my current 'hate' figure..

Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

This has been a fascinating discussion on handicaps for new designs,  but one with plenty of deja-vu over the years
The current practise is to look at the boat specs and compare,  find a similar design  then guess at a handicap that is worst than the benchmark class so the new design doesn't whip everyone on its first outings.  Then as more real data emerges the handicap will tend to rise to its more natural position
IMHO in these days of more data being available and more accessible technology, there should be a better and fairer way of handling new classes,  and I plan to ask this to be added to the agenda to the next PYaG meeting.  
In PYS we now have nearly a million rows of results data with times.  Over the last year SailRacer have also  GPS tracked more than 1,000 races which gives plenty of performance data,  particularly as we have also measured and recorded the course,  often with wind data and sometimes tidal flows.
With all this data I am sure we can do much more.




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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 9:04pm
Nope, I'm none the wiser - Simon appears to be working hard to make the system fair - even if you disagree with some of the methods, I can't see a reason for hatred.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 6:01am

Originally posted by iGRF

and it is all Simon Loveseys fault I have decided, he is my new hate figure, denying me a new boat the b**tard.

iGRF -  Confused  very sorry if I have offended,  not quite sure what I have done wrong and my parents may disagree with your conclusion.

A few chances to ask the questions you seem to have in person :

Tonight I am presenting at Brightlingsea SC :
http://goo.gl/5HexKY" rel="nofollow - http://goo.gl/5HexKY

Next week will be at the Yacht Racing Forum,  where SailRacer is a media partner
http://goo.gl/F8GUBD" rel="nofollow - http://goo.gl/F8GUBD

Then GJW Direct SailJuice Winter Series II,  Datchet -  I am sure someone here could find you a suitable boat :
http://goo.gl/yDr25h" rel="nofollow - http://goo.gl/yDr25h

Failing that you are most welcome to join us for a cup of coffee at the SailRacer office
http://goo.gl/w6YWfQ" rel="nofollow - http://goo.gl/w6YWfQ
Nice harbour side location,  opposite Sir Ben's new HQ

We may even be able to get our neighbour Alex to take you sailing on his bandit boat
http://goo.gl/TvklLm" rel="nofollow - http://goo.gl/TvklLm


Last month, I presented at International Sailing Summit on some of our work:
http://goo.gl/gT4N22" rel="nofollow - http://goo.gl/gT4N22


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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 8:54am
Simon your task is simple, stop prejudicing new boat sales by encouraging harsh handicaps, encourage your 'friends' on the PYAG to adopt a 'formula' for new boats based on the length, weight, sail area, crew weight/righting moment and use that for the first three months/necessary period to collate race data.

And stop mind melding with the Dark Prince or any of his pals in the trade.

Then nobody can accuse you and your pals of anything and all be be well in the garden..

Smell those Roses!

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Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 9:08am
Originally posted by iGRF

Simon your task is simple, stop prejudicing new boat sales by encouraging harsh handicaps

But I have stated on several occasions that I think the method of handicapping new designs is wrong and there are better ways.


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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 9:19am
Good, then broadly we are in agreement then?

So, who has to be the new target for ironic abuse if not you?

Where does the responsibility lie?



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Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 10:21am

Good, then broadly we are in agreement then?

Well that is bound to kill an otherwise entertaining thread .. and just when a few of us were wondering where the deckchairs had got to ...

Shock horror !  Sudden agreement breaks out.  (it will surely be over by Christmas etc ....)

But in the meantime I guess the lurkers will have to fall back upon one forum certainty ... the likely  '100 year forum 'ero wars'  to entertain....  (available on both Y&Y and SA ). 

Come on there must be something new not involving PN's or 'centre-strap' singlehander stone throwing  ..

Mike L.


    



Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 04 Jan 15 at 9:29pm
So a month has passed and a new year dawned and for one family or move or daughters of darkness reason or another today was the first time back, it's a new series and apparently it's customary to run the start of every series as a pursuit race.

Not something I've ever experienced before, it's enough down that lake to remember the mark rounding sequence and wether to take them port or starboard, trussed up in a death bag, temperature 1 degree, fumbling in gloves, not the sharpest of sails, yet despite starting last I think my 6 minute was after the Solos and the three minute was as the Laser departed, I ended up damn close to winning it, had I not had one of my classic senior moments falling into the bottom of the boat, then another issue with that stupid harness rig thing coming adrift and leaving me without the main sheet for a couple of wild gybes down wind when the cable tie securing it snapped, I could have won.

So what is my point?

The point is, how is it possible to make that ludicrous ground up coming from behind when imv it simply isn't feasible if we all start together. Now they were all out, Miracle, Europe, Solos, Streaker, Laser, the only boats missing were the 300 and the Rooster.

I've been going over and over it in my head, I wasn't sailing exceptionally well, I got a couple of shifts and a couple of good mark rounding as I came through, but I've sailed much better in conventional races and not done as well, what is it about a pursuit that does this? Has anyone else had any similar experience?

Maybe it's down to psychology once out front, not needing to push hard to keep making up time, i guess from years of not needing to worry about time if you are in the lead, maybe it's easier to catch up than gain ground, there is an element of that, it's easy to spot a boat in front making a shift error and indeed what the shifts definitely going to do before it reaches you, anyway it was an interesting experience, kind of gives the lie to the handicap being wrong though doesn't it? i may have to STFU in future.

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Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 04 Jan 15 at 9:36pm
Its not uncommon in a reasonable sized handicap start to get some form of bad air off of the start line, or alternatively one balls-up shortly ater the start due to the pressure can drop you back into the pack and into bad air.
Typically on a pursuit race at club level the number of competitors is so small that you inevitably get clear air for most of your race.

So it suggests that you are cr*p at finding a good lane off the start and maintaining your concentration for the full length of the first leg ;)


Posted By: Neal_g
Date Posted: 04 Jan 15 at 9:58pm
So iGRF we'll see you at queen mary next Saturday then after a good race today

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(Redoubt Sc)
Miracle 4040
GP14 13407

Crewsaver phase 2 range now available to buy online on at http://www.gibsonsails.com


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 04 Jan 15 at 10:17pm
I'd have had you as well had you been there..

Not sure I'd want to put myself through what those poor unmarried parented types had to put up with at Oxford, an hour is enough in this weather and even then at fifty minutes I started chucking myself in the bottom of the boat.

Interesting two ship disasters on the news, then I hear you've taken on the role of coastguard recently, nothing you want to tell me?

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Posted By: Neal_g
Date Posted: 04 Jan 15 at 10:24pm
nope all routine stuff.

besides it'll be spring soon and it is only one race

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(Redoubt Sc)
Miracle 4040
GP14 13407

Crewsaver phase 2 range now available to buy online on at http://www.gibsonsails.com


Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 05 Jan 15 at 12:20am
Pursuit races are just a more fun way of doing py handicap races in so many ways.
Everybody gets clean air at some time during the race.
People always know where they are in the race at all times and at end of the race everybody knows where they are, no waiting around for someone to work out the handicaps.
I have always sailed at clubs that have always sailed mostly pursuits and have always been surprised that more clubs don't use the pursuit format more often.


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 05 Jan 15 at 1:14am
Originally posted by ex laser

Is have always sailed at clubs that have always sailed mostly pursuits and have always been surprised that more clubs don't use the pursuit format more often.


It's because most of us grow out of kiss-chase eventually....


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 05 Jan 15 at 4:08am
If you're in the nominally fastest boat and it's not your weather pursuits are peculiarly dispiriting.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 05 Jan 15 at 8:38am
I'm usually one of the early starters. Some days are good,and you never see the fleet. Others you get rolled over in half an hour. We do one race per Sunday using it for about 3/4 of the year, which I think is a little too much.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 05 Jan 15 at 9:05am
Originally posted by JimC

If you're in the nominally fastest boat and it's not your weather pursuits are peculiarly dispiriting.
Yes I could see that, in a stronger breeze they'd be long gone unlikely you'd catch up, the speed differentials are not great enough, I can see it was probably only because it was light and shifty which does make it easier to come from behind, but even so, I've never managed to break three minutes clear of the Laser (we're pretty evenly matched) and 6 minutes from a Solo? It just wouldn't happen, well I thought not until now, this kind of re writes my entire thinking on the subject and has me really perplexed.

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Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 05 Jan 15 at 10:59am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by ex laser

Is have always sailed at clubs that have always sailed mostly pursuits and have always been surprised that more clubs don't use the pursuit format more often.


It's because most of us grow out of kiss-chase eventually....


And grow up to be kiss-arses and smart alec's( corrected by james)
.


Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 05 Jan 15 at 11:15am
Originally posted by JimC

If you're in the nominally fastest boat and it's not your weather pursuits are peculiarly dispiriting.


True, but a lot depends on your mind set.
When I had a supernova and was the last starter, I very rarely came off the water in a bad mood even if I had a bad result because I enjoy having a target to chase.
Now I sail a slow boat and get a lot better results, by far the most dispiriting thing is being overtaken by the fast boats with 30s to go to the end of the race.


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 05 Jan 15 at 11:19am
Originally posted by ex laser

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by ex laser

Is have always sailed at clubs that have always sailed mostly pursuits and have always been surprised that more clubs don't use the pursuit format more often.


It's because most of us grow out of kiss-chase eventually....


And grow up to be kiss-arses and smart alex's.

it's 'smart alec' or 'smart aleck' actually, but that's just proving your point, on one at least.

As for the other, what you do in the comfort of your own home is your business Duncan.


Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 05 Jan 15 at 11:26am
Originally posted by turnturtle



Originally posted by ex laser

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by ex laser

Is have always sailed at clubs that have always sailed mostly pursuits and have always been surprised that more clubs don't use the pursuit format more often.


It's because most of us grow out of kiss-chase eventually....


And grow up to be kiss-arses and smart alex's.

it's 'smart alec' or 'smart aleck' actually, but that's just proving your point, on one at least.
As for the other, what you do in the comfort of your own home is your business Duncan.


Ahhh the joys of auto correct. Cheers, now corrected original post.
Anyway i bow to your superior knowledge of both subjects.


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 05 Jan 15 at 12:52pm
Mate - you're forgetting... I'm the one who prefers the rimless design... but each to his own.


Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 05 Jan 15 at 2:46pm
😩


Posted By: Woodbotherer
Date Posted: 15 Feb 15 at 5:09pm
Well we had a fun one today, a Solution has appeared and I was trialling a new gizmo for my sheeting system, something I'd cobbled together from a kite surfing spreader bar and bits, but it got off all a bit flustered, the five went with the boat still on the trailer, then my system proved too resistant so I had to re rig it on the water, barely made the start, not exactly 2nd rank but was out nosed by those pesky shouty Miracle girls, they tacked off luckily and I turned a Port tack solo around until the bank loomed then it was myself, the Solution and the Buzz rounding, so it doesn't go that bad, after a couple of laps, the Solution had the lead over the water by quite a margin.
The Buzz was busy turning itself into a candle factory and they dropped off, so it was just the two of us, on paper I should be ahead and wasn't so that had to be rectified which eventually it was, after a couple of bad offwind decisions trying to dogleg a leg which should have been just dead run by the lee by the Solution.
The EPS even went on to stretch its legs and gave me a 2nd, which I'm sure might have been better if they hadn't finished the slow boats behind us on what was to prove to be the slowest leg as the wind shifted a fetch into a beat and dropped a bit, I don't think that's a fair thing to do to be honest, i've no idea how they calculate it, it's all very well grand prix finishing after the lead boats have gone through and they're a lap behind, but when they win despite not doing the same course we did, much muttering in boat park ensues..
The Solution however straight out of the gate new boat a third place, beat the Lasers, Solo's and the Streakers, I'm definitely going to have a serious look at it next time when I'm not fiddling with gizmos.


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