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Blatant pumping in Olympic sailing - OK with that?

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Poll Question: Pumping is allowed in some Olympic classes, good or bad?
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14 [32.56%]
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11 [25.58%]
18 [41.86%]
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rogue View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 11 at 2:13pm
That might be one interpretation, it might even be the official interpretation, Gordon; but I think if you asked what Joe Public thinks is sailing, they're not going to give two hoots if one guy's pumping n' ooching and one isn't. As an Olympic discipline, then I believe the rules of the game should maximise the physical aspects. Otherwise it's a phony representation of what the medal 'could' represent in true athletic terms.

Edited by rogue - 20 Dec 11 at 2:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 11 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by Neptune

Is pumping not just exaggerated trimming of the sails?  




No. Pumping de-skills sailing. getting the correct trim is all about skill.
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 11 at 4:03pm
An interesting point of view - so the Olympic soccer tournament should allow the use of hands to play the ball so that the medal can be truly representative of the athleticism of the players! Or that Olympic walkers should be allowed to run because it is more athletic.

Every sport is a social construct, with limits defined by those who play and administrate the sport. The rules can vary (can't remember us paying much attention to the offiside rule when playing football during school break) but esentially every sport has certain distinguishing features. Our sport has adopted, forbetter or for worse, the limits set out in rule 42.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 11 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by timeintheboat

Originally posted by Neptune

Is pumping not just exaggerated trimming of the sails?  




No. Pumping de-skills sailing. getting the correct trim is all about skill.
 
Absolute rubbish. Effective pumping requires every bit as much skill as any other facet of the sport - timing the pump right in relation to the waves, understanding the different pumping styles for big waves and wind as opposed to lighter winds and no waves. And that's without thinking about the teamwork involved in pumping main and kite in harmony.
 
I've seen boats pumping aggressively (and potentially illegally) but because they weren't doing it effectively, I've sailed right past them. Sometimes subtlety is required (oh, another skill).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 11 at 4:17pm
Yes pumping is a technique that can be learnt and perfected - like pushing before the ball is put into the scrum or soccer's artistic diving in the penalty area....

However, except in strictly limited circumstances pumping  is not part of the sport of sailing as it is defined at present.
Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 11 at 4:30pm
We need someone here who knows a lot about board racing - paging [perish th thought! GRF... Its instructive to watch it, even though I don't understand the subtleties, but it seems fairly clear to me that skill and timing, whilst always important, comes a long way second to working your a**e off all the time. Paul Henderson's description of air rowing takes a lot of sense. You can't win wihout skill and 100% physical effort. I love the subtleties of gentle kinetics and I fear I sometimes go past the border of the rules, but allow unlimited pumping and those skills will be lost for ever because the guy who spends three hours in the gym every day and pumps continuously will always win.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 11 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by gordon

Yes pumping is a technique that can be learnt and perfected - like pushing before the ball is put into the scrum or soccer's artistic diving in the penalty area....

However, except in strictly limited circumstances pumping  is not part of the sport of sailing as it is defined at present.
 
I'm sure you don't mean it that way but you seem to be suggesting that pumping is cheating. It is not - as long as you execute as the rules allow (once per gust or wave to promote planing or surfing etc).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote paolochilds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 11 at 5:12pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEQttj8E1b0
What do you reckon? For the Olympics and in the right classes I can see it being good. That said I am against it for club/nationals racing. Not sure why, maybe because they are pro sailors and to be the best you need the complete package... Maybe because Ben is so good at it it makes it look awesome. Not sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 11 at 6:05pm
Steve411 - you define the  "strictly limited circumstances" in which pumping is allowed: once per wave or gust to initiate planing or surfing. Thus - no pumping if surfing or planing is not possible, no pumping once boat is surfing or planing (pumping to stay on the plane is not allowed).

Any pumping outside these limits breaks rule 42.2a.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ham4sand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 11 at 8:41pm
Gordon, I dont think this discussion is quite as much about adhereing to rule 42, as discussing the options and possibilities of allowing pumping through possible changes to the rule in the future?
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