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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 10 at 10:37am
Why in the world did you think I was talking down to you????

Some of this stuff I have strong feelings about, because I've actually gone to the effort of spending hundreds of hours researching dinghy history around the world - interviewing people, blowing dust off old books in library shelves, locating copies of old docs and plans, etc.

One thing that comes out of that is that no one has the right to believe that their own country knows it all, or even has any claim to know more than any other sailing nation.


Edited by Chris 249 - 04 Nov 10 at 10:43am
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Pierre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 10 at 10:37am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Pierre

Originally posted by MattK

Originally posted by Pierre

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........Nice boat. Good job, 'nuff said.


Forum - Noun - a public facility to meet for open discussion


Damn !!!!....

Just getting a touch of deja vu and circularity.  :-)


Oh Pierre, you do disappoint.... stop exposing the truth that this forum is one constant merry-go-around.... hang around here long enough and you'll know all the right buttons to push to really piss people off and get some newbie completely flamed up over their opinions.

Back on topic- personally I don't really understand why they are calling this a skiff, it's not Australian is it?



I apologise unreservedly for my lack of effort and originalty. A cheap shot I admit, tinged with laziness.
I fully understand why the Cherub sailors are getting moist, having seen the picture at the start of topic.

I like the idea of skiff sailing, but only on the sea with lots of room.
Indeed, I love watching others do it.

As you say, back on topic.... surely skiffs have oars?
I know this, because you can hire them just by Hampton Court Bridge,
and also Wikiwotsit says so.


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Pierre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 10 at 10:42am
Originally posted by Slippery Jim

Originally posted by Chris 249

Sure, but you can rewards from "getting it right" in anything from an Opti to an AC multi. Big smile 

Some people like a particular feel in a boat, some don't. 
 
Ok. Chris, I'll put you in an Opti and I'll take an AC multi and we'll compare notes LOL.
 
There' s no reason to talk down to us "foreigners" and hoy paloy - we all know it's "horses for courses"


Chris would win, hands down.
Good bloke with great input, experience and knowledge.
Unfortunately not very fat, so will never be a truely rounded
sailor, but non-the-less, a decent cove.

Tongue

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 10 at 10:54am
Originally posted by Pierre

Originally posted by Slippery Jim

Originally posted by Chris 249

Sure, but you can rewards from "getting it right" in anything from an Opti to an AC multi. Big smile 

Some people like a particular feel in a boat, some don't. 
 
Ok. Chris, I'll put you in an Opti and I'll take an AC multi and we'll compare notes LOL.
 
There' s no reason to talk down to us "foreigners" and hoy paloy - we all know it's "horses for courses"


Chris would win, hands down.
Good bloke with great input, experience and knowledge.
Unfortunately not very fat, so will never be a truely rounded
sailor, but non-the-less, a decent cove.

Tongue



Blushes....
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Pierre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 10 at 10:56am
Don't push it .........
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tgruitt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 10 at 11:17am
Originally posted by SimonW99

In the context of sailing dinghies -
The term skiff is also used to refer to a high performance sailing dinghy, one that usually features an asymmetrical spinnaker and requires that the crew use a trapeze to help balance the boat.



What about the B14?
Needs to sail more...
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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 10 at 11:19am
10 pages of this thread so far, why i wonder? have the ISAF or IOC ever stated that a place will be found for this 'event' in any Olympic cycle? perhaps they're running a "feasibility study" or other excuse for business lunches and lengthy spreadsheets but how many of these have actually made it through to the games? lets not forget that at this point in the 'cycle' there is often a surplus of "resources" in such august bodies and many of them are happy indeed to find something to do which justifies their existence...
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 10 at 11:37am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Slippery Jim

What makes skiff sailing (in general) so unnattractive?

Its something I've been puzzling over for thirty five years without coming up with any answers. The strangest thing of all is that the skiff types have never been as accessible or as easy to sail as they are now: light carbon spars, depowering rigs, sprit kites, bulletprof high tech construction, all the rest of it have made the top end boats easier to sail and own than they've ever been.

But for all that I suspect (Chris am I correct?) that there are less skiffs out on Sydney Harbour of a weekend now than there were thirty years ago in the days of fragile water-soaked wood pole kite boats which practically sank if you capsized and had such heavy rigs that if you let them heel more than twenty degrees they were practically certain to capsize.


WARNING- LONG POST

Yep, you're on the money.

My copy of the '82/'83 Yachting Association of NSW shows that there were close to 350 registered Skiffs in NSW (assuming 15 18s in the NSW 18 Footer's League, for which I have no figures), not counting VSs, Cherubs etc which were then not called skiffs.

Now it seems like there's about 190.  About five clubs are just as strong as they were 28 years ago, and they range from an "amateur" club to one that turns over $20 million p.a. Some of them spend an average of about $3,000 per boat (including juniors, Lasers etc) on supporting the sport each year.  The extreme is the 18 Footer League, which arranges sponsorship and lends you a competitive 18, but laws on gambling, drink-driving and smoking have reduced club incomes and therefore the support they can give.

A greater number of clubs have lost their entire Skiff fleet, while about a third have about 8 active Skiffs.

That's not counting 9ers and B14s, which are doing okay, but not getting big turnouts - 10-12 active B14s, less than 20 29ers at the State titles....overall they'd make up for the loss of VSs.  So maybe skiff types are 60% as big as they were. 

Other classes have suffered in a similar fashion over that time. Cats, boards, VSs, Mirrors, Sharpies, 505s, Fireballs, Flying Ants and Herons aren't doing too well, VJs and Gwen 12s have gone from having dozens of boats to being dead classes, Solos and Javelins are gone, Moths lost big time but are recovering. Tasars, , Flying 11s, 420s, Spirals (baby Lasers) Lasers and some of the day-racing keelboats are probably as strong as they were back then; MG14s and NS14s are chugging along OK so the moderate-performance classes seem to have suffered less than the fast or slow boats.

Interstate the skiffs remain very small and SA has lost what used to be a hot 14 fleet (including the world I-14 champ).

So there's certainly no shift towards skiff types. Demographic changes, the arrival of more extreme water sports, gender role changes, longer working hours, a shift towards white collar working, fewer houses with garages, it's all got to have an impact.  Pity the simplistic thinking we see in some areas (especially some parts of the sailing media) doesn't allow for such factors.


Edited by Chris 249 - 04 Nov 10 at 11:53am
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winging it View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 10 at 12:14pm


Preferred the look of the cherub.
the same, but different...

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MikeBz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MikeBz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 10 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by Skiffman

I do not think it always about the speed but how rewarding it is to sail. The 49er is fast but it is rewarding when you set it up right and it just sits in its groove where you are hardly moving the main and its just like a rocket. Then again get it wrong and its horrible. That makes a difference to me
 
Nail, head, direct hit.
 
Mike
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