New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: capsize problem ...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

capsize problem ...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
clairey View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 14 Dec 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9
Post Options Post Options   Quote clairey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 10 at 10:55pm

Hello,

Thank you all heaps for your helpfull tips. No one else I know sails a Pico, everyone at the club prefers Lasers for singlehanded stuff. I have an old laser 4.7, which other people keep trying to encourage me into (I think they think at 38 I am too old to sail a bright yellow pico - I disagree!). However I have only sailed that a couple of times as I am very fond of my Pico and prefer it (normally not yesterday thoug!)

So my plan is

1) watch my tell tales more and remember what they mean

2) let the sail out more (gently!) on a windy reach and stop being such a scaredy cat. try and sit out more to heel boat to windward a little downwind ( eeeek!) , or at least dont let it heel to leeward

3) pull on more not less kicker, centre board down more

4) practice a lot more ! (the fun bit)

A couple of specific thingies

Nick A - Worryingly I already only use the sport sail, and my own homemade but much better than normal kicker, so I cant improve there ! I sometimes wonder if the sport sail is too big for me ( I am only 52 kg and maybe less now after all those calories burnt swimming around at the weekend!) when its windy - apparently the sail area 6.44 m2, so bigger than a laser radial (which I am apprently too light for) but then the Pico hull is quite heavy and more stable compared to a normal laser as well. I am thinking I will be OK even in strong winds if I improve my technique, wondered what your thoughts were. Also any tips on hiking out well, I find it difficult as the sides are quite curved and smooth ( compared to the laser) so i hover nervously on the side which is not as effective !

Umm what is pitch poling, is it where you and the boat do a somersault ?? If so I have not done it yet, but I'm sure it wont be long ! sounds scary though......

ColPrice 2002 - That makes lots of sense. I was wondering - do you mean that lots of weather helm is to be expected anyway if you are on a broad reach when windy due to the wind pushing the sail. Or if you get it balanced right with the sail out correctly, boat flat etc will the rudder be nice and light again. In light/moderate winds I dont really need to use the rudder much, sail and weight is enough to steer it, but this is just something I learnt recently so its not instinctive yet.

GRF - Photos of other people swimming always make me feel better !

Thanks for your help again

Claire

Back to Top
zailor View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 09
Location: Penparc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 249
Post Options Post Options   Quote zailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 7:14am
Originally posted by clairey

 

Umm what is pitch poling, is it where you and the boat do a somersault ?? If so I have not done it yet, but I'm sure it wont be long ! sounds scary though.....

Claire

 

highly unlikely or perhaps impossible.

however, should you manage it video footage of it would be greatly appreciated!

Back to Top
radixon View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2407
Post Options Post Options   Quote radixon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 10:01am
Originally posted by clairey


GRF - Photos of other people swimming always make me feel better !

Please don't encourage him. I'd say he is jelous as he doesn't have a famous face but then again he didn't do this on his first sail in a new boat....

(this is another forum member - merlinboy)

Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom/Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4027
Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 11:45am


I prefer this one.

It obviously needs a caption.

Something along the lines "Come and get me boys I'm ready for you now."
Back to Top
MerlinMags View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 04
Location: UK, Guildford
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 571
Post Options Post Options   Quote MerlinMags Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 11:51am
I don't think you are likely to pitchpole a Pico unless you go out in some monster waves, so don't let that one bother you!
Back to Top
MattK View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 02 Feb 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 221
Post Options Post Options   Quote MattK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 11:56am
i have tried to pitchpole a pico many times, and they simply will not do it,
even when i ploughed it down the back of a wave in a force 4-5 sat at the
front, with a mate running forward of the mast, they just go down a bit,
screw up and capsize conventionally
Back to Top
I luv Wight View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 628
Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by MattK

i have tried to pitchpole a pico many times, and they simply will not do it,
even when i ploughed it down the back of a wave in a force 4-5 sat at the
front, with a mate running forward of the mast, they just go down a bit,
screw up and capsize conventionally


Yeah it's fun playing submarines!

Sailing with my kids, lean forwards downwind, get the bow under and completely fill the boat, until it's completely underwater. ( but don't try it if it's too windy or things might break. )
I sail my ( I mean the kids ) pico if it's windy. The race sail works better in a breeze, it twists off better, and goes flatter so it's more controllable, and is more fun downwind.

Keeping flat is the main thing - ease the sheet a upwind in the puffs to keep the boat flat and moving - don't just sheet in and pinch, because then it goes very slowly and sideways.

Downwind in a breeze, sailing by the lee is faster, but more tricky. If you sail by the lee, heeled to winward slightly, the boat is balanced with no force required on the tiller. When a puff hits, the boat heels the wrong way ( to windward) , you need to sheet in a bit to keeo the top of the sail in the right place ( because the rig bends and stretches ), a small rudder correction to keep the boat under the rig, and it just whizzes away.  Which is better than the alternative of the boat heeling away from you to leeward, the rudder loading up and you are unable to bear away due to the rudder load, and the rudder coming out of the water.

http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk
Andy P
foiling Int Moth GBR3467
Freedom 21 Codling
Back to Top
desteve1 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 09
Location: cambridge
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 81
Post Options Post Options   Quote desteve1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 6:57pm
funnelly enough I was sailing a pico on sunday, and capsized on the second race while sailing downwind aswell.... snap
laser 81188 (looking for a name)
Back to Top
NickA View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 724
Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 10 at 10:26pm

MattK & AndyP speak words of truth - a pitchpole should be the aim of every keen pico sailor, but I know no-one who's ever managed it. 

What happens when you head down wind with the weight too far forward is that the nose goes down, the back goes up and water washes over the bows whilst the boat appears to sink .... BUT IT WON'T FLIP.  You can then put your weight right at the back, pop out the nose and set off like a ball from a cannon. Endless hours of fun.

Regarding effective hiking, the pico is WIDE and very bouyant.  As it heels it hoiks you, and that heavy hull, up in the air; which is how you can manage more sail area than a radial on it. But to go a reasonable speed and reasonably in the right direction you need to keep it flat - and at your weight in F4/5 that's going to be a fight.  There is no easy technique.  Basically lean out backwards until your shoulders nearly touch the water, if it heels despite that, shove hips down and chest up to thrutch it firmly back upright..   It will give you tummy muscles to die for!  No sitting up.

I weigh 76kg and am tall enough to hike out with my knees around those curved sides and my bum in free space.  And I only have the ordinary sail (plus a jib, sometimes).But I have most fun in F6+.   

The thing about heeling the boat to windward when reaching, is that it puts the centre of effort of the sail over the centre line of the boat, so you get less weather helm and less tendency for the boat to screw up wind.  The sail is higher in the sky and catches more wind.  So it's faster.  It's also wobblier.  This is really a laser technique which does work on a pico but to a lesser extent as the flat bottomed pico doesn't sail so well when heeled as a laser does.  Bit advanced really.  All but the best laser sailors only do it in light wind.

You don't mention up wind - a lot of people sit too far back (ie where they would be if they had a crew).  Don't.  Sit forward.  Fit a front footstrap and put one foot under it.  Otherwise it goes slowly .. and sideways.

As with other hiking boats: drink more beer, eat more pies, do many sit ups.



Edited by NickA
3604 ...lapse of reason
Javelin 558
Back to Top
dics View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 05 Oct 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 317
Post Options Post Options   Quote dics Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 10 at 12:01pm

RS300 Winter Championships

Opps here another one. He keeps on poping up everywhere.

The chap in the background has got it together though.



Edited by dics
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy