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Devotti Single Hander

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 8:47pm
No.. what none of you grasp, is that we've been learning how and dealing
with Mast Bends and Luff tube mismatch to achieve sail shape up and
down wind for thirty years.

Have forgotten more about sail design than clearly the simpleton that
built that rig will ever know.

As an efficient device for dealing with a range of conditions, given the
level of sophistication the other control features of the hull potentially
bring to bear, it is quite frankly a joke.

For an expensive boat - its a cheap rig.

Oh yes and concept of masts that bend to depower?

1989 was the last year that was tried (called flex top) and went out during
the early nineties, with the advent of progressive twist, and controlled by
downhaul.



Edited by G.R.F.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 8:59pm
Let me just explain why a flex top, or bendy mast isn't good.

It's for the same reason sailing upright is good rather than heeling.

Only worse in a way.

Heeling doesn't distort and destroy the foil, which disturbs the laminar
flow (look it up)

Unless the sail is cut so the leech tightens when the mast bends off to
leeward which clearly that sail isn't. (Old test of flextop windsurf rigs in
late eighties, pull downhaul, leech goes all floppy, lay on ground stand on
mast tip, leech tightens.

That mast is bending every which way. no way can it remain efficient.

Sorry if you think it is you're just plain deluded..

Edit come to think of it didn't I read somewhere they're already working
on another rig? I wonder why...

Edited by G.R.F.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 9:03pm

disagree.

With the kite up its 26 square metres of sail area.

Come and have a proper conversation when the mighty GRF can handle a 26 square metre rig with his bare hands.

lighten up, listen a bit, chill out, and stop being such a complete and utter miserable old sod.

 

Originally posted by G.R.F.

No.. what none of you grasp, is that we've been learning how and dealing
with Mast Bends and Luff tube mismatch to achieve sail shape up and
down wind for thirty years.

Have forgotten more about sail design than clearly the simpleton that
built that rig will ever know.

As an efficient device for dealing with a range of conditions, given the
level of sophistication the other control features of the hull potentially
bring to bear, it is quite frankly a joke.

For an expensive boat - its a cheap rig.

Oh yes and concept of masts that bend to depower?

1989 was the last year that was tried (called flex top) and went out during
the early nineties, with the advent of progressive twist, and controlled by
downhaul.

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 9:15pm
I'm not miserable..

I might be old(ish)

But I'm happy to enlighten young minds..

Especially when they're being bullsh*tted to..

Just think of me as a handy substitute for this...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 9:15pm

The point is when the wind gets mental, you dont want to have to go and change the sail to cope with the conditions.

In the picture the wind was pretty ruff (gusting 5 for sure)

So in my opinion the rig was doing the right thing....spilling power.

BTW if I wanted to keep the power on all I had to do was put some kicker on and all would be fine (would deffo do that in the lighter stuff = more power)

Doubt you can get that sort of adjustability on a board, hence the early doors sail change.

If in that wind I was to wack loads of kicker on I would never get downwind without wanting to nosedive....you (GRF) would know this as you have mentioned before about the Blaze having the same problem.

We could argue all night about what is right and wrong with different boats, but it's completely pointless.

Tim

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 9:17pm

So GRF what's wrong with this mast here then?

Check out the windsurfers in the background trying to keep up.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 9:17pm
G.R.F. ......I don't quite understand what you're saying. If I type windsurfing
into google images, I get tons of pics of windsurfing rigs powering along,
with the top of the mast bending off sideways taking the top of the sail out
of action. Which is seemingly the same as what is happening with the D-
one rig.


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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 9:24pm
Well it's probably pointless given the circumstance of this particular
thread, if you want to debate the ins and outs of rig control and sail twist
from limited controls I can wax poetical all night, but then that's not
going to help you sell boats is it?

So, I've made my point and I shall leave you to continue to enjoy in
innocence you're wonderful new toy.

The Blaze nosedive issue is a rocker not a rig issue, an issue I think a
spinnaker might alleviate a tad, but I never got that far and it's not that
big an issue as it happens, it's never gone all the way down the mine like
Bethwaites wonder machines, it's just a 'build your confidence it wont'
thing that needed to be overcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 9:35pm

Lucky you didnt sail the original rig then....that's why they changed it.

You could have called yourself "stinky pete" (look it up) the amount of mining you had to do.

But change it they had to, after a go-live.....unlike this mast that has already taken that behaviour into account.

I don't sell them, but I am sure as hell enjoying sailing them.

Tim

 

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Well it's probably pointless given the circumstance of this particular
thread, if you want to debate the ins and outs of rig control and sail twist
from limited controls I can wax poetical all night, but then that's not
going to help you sell boats is it?

So, I've made my point and I shall leave you to continue to enjoy in
innocence you're wonderful new toy.

The Blaze nosedive issue is a rocker not a rig issue, an issue I think a
spinnaker might alleviate a tad, but I never got that far and it's not that
big an issue as it happens, it's never gone all the way down the mine like
Bethwaites wonder machines, it's just a 'build your confidence it wont'
thing that needed to be overcome.

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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 09 at 10:31pm

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Well it's probably pointless given the circumstance of this particular
thread, if you want to debate the ins and outs of rig control and sail twist
from limited controls I can wax poetical all night, but then that's not
going to help you sell boats is it?

We can start another thread for you to tech us, I'd love to know where I've gone wrong in ten years of reasearch and experement on lift theory and composite engineering.  I'll call it GRF's rig school, I'm all ears!

FLAT IS FAST!
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