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How fast????

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Harry44981! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 04 at 4:14pm
yeh im 14
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redback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 04 at 4:55pm
I'm not, but a skiff definitely needs a regular crew.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wave Rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 04 at 5:13pm

Lol ye i no

 

Is a contender a skiff???

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Binky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 04 at 6:32pm
What gives something skiff status?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wave Rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 04 at 7:57pm

If the hull planes on the aft quarter it is considered a skiff and skiffs plane in fairly light winds like the 49er which will plane in a bout 10 knots of wind whereas to get a topper planing you need about 15 knots of wind!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

I think!

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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 04 at 11:05am

I think it comes down to hull form, Skiffs have large flat sections aft, distinct chines and minimal rocker to promote early planing.  Although originally the term was applied to rowing boats with similar forms the current use tends to imply boats with very large sail areas as well.  Its not a dictionary definition, but I think it covers most of it. 

Or, courtesy of dictionary.com : A flatbottom open boat of shallow draft, having a pointed bow and a square stern and propelled by oars, sail, or motor.

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 04 at 11:29am
Well, the modern skiff line came from down here in Australia, but there's never been a strict definition of the term.

The classic way of showing how confused it has been, historically, is that the 14s were called "skiff" in NSW and the same class was called a "dinghy" in Western Australia, with the other states wavering from one to the other.

The 16s developed from rowing skiffs (called Port Jackson's Watermans' skiffs) and many older 16 sailors use the term "skiffs" for 16s and "18s" and "12s" for the other classes....they don't reckon the 12s and 18s are real "skiffs" because they didn't come directly from rowing skiffs.

Still, if we assume that the 12s, 16s and 18s are traditional real skiffs, we can see that they have (1) multiple rigs (2) lots of righting moment - much more than a dinghy of similar length (3) big rigs (4) open rules (5) used to have rules against decks.

Aussie 14s traditionally fitted all these criteria at different times apart from 5 (IIRC).

You must be able to have a skiff without wings, because 12s and 16s don't have wings. 16s - unarguably a skiff - have now gone one design as have the 18s - so Pt 4 must also be considered dead.

All the skiff classes now have decks so 5 has faded away.

So points 1,2,3 still remain. 2 and 3 also fit other classes that claim the skiff title - 14s and 49ers, RS 800s, perhaps Laser 4000s, Musto Skiffs etc.

So it seems to me that a boat that a "skiff" should have at least a much bigger rig than a comparable dinghy and much more righting moment.

I also reckon that if you can call it a skiff in the bar of the Belmont or St George 16' skiff clubs and NOT get punched out, it's a skiff.

So a Contender is not a skiff because it doesn't fit 1,3,4,5. Mebbe it fits 2, but  Ben Lexcen, the designer of the Contender, never called it a skiff although he was also a skiff designer. Even allowing for changes in terminology, it's got nothing skiff about it.

With respect, Phil, "real" skiffs don't always have have large flat sections aft - the current 16s don't really, nor do many 12s. The older boats were distinctly Veed aft.

Skiff  also don't always have distinct chines - the current dominant "Woof" 12 is still round-bilged and still winning. Most skiffs were round  bilged through most of history (no chine skiff won a title for the first half of their historty) and many skiffs were round bilged until the early '70s. The 16s contined to be round bilged through most of their length for many years after that (fully round-bilged 16s were seen at least as late as '88).




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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 04 at 1:54pm
I stand corrected. 
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Brian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 04 at 4:23pm
i stand confused
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 04 at 4:30pm

Right Julian and Frank have a complicated formula for working out which boats are a 'skiff' and which are not. It basicly comes down to 2 different numbers one for upwind and another for down. As an example a 29er is both of these numbers making it just a skiff, anything low than these numbers isn't and anything higher is.

Have a look at http://www.29er.org/9851,02,2-0.html its Julian explaing this alot better than I have.

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