How fast????

That could be a keelboat. Open 60? Mini-Transat?

Having thought about what constitutes a skiff it is more a type of boat rather than a concrete definition.

The following criteria comes to mind

1. Freedom of design - the less rules the better

2. Freedom of rigs

3. Use of the latest technology - carbon etc

4. A challenge to sail

5. Significant speed advantage of similar length boats.

So some boats may fit the definition when they are built but after a few years fall behind.

Chris 249, don't stop, its interesting .  However I can't help feel the history is not that important. 

For me its what people mean when they use the term skiff.  And here in the UK I think they mean assymmetric, high powered, trapeze (or wings or both), upwind planner that gets many of its features from recent 18 foot skiffs.  Its not important that they have all the features of a 18 footer but anything it shares in common is likely to increase probablility of being called a skiff.  So I guess I should also include self tacking jib, open type foredeck, fully battened sails, self draining, dagger board and apparent wind ability. Now I know some boats have some of these features, take a 5o5, this certainly will plane upwind, use the apparent wind and is high powered but it takes its design themes not from current 18 footers but from more conventional dinghies and so is unlikely to be called a skiff.

One of the characteristics of skiffs seems to be they are optimised for sailing in stronger winds and as a consequence are relatively poor when it gets light.  Would we all agree that a B14 is a skiff, if so it exemplifies this last characteristic quite well?  It has a huge sail area and yet goes very badly in light winds - a 5 oh would thrash it in 5knots of wind but it would thrash a 5 oh in 15.

I guess you (Chris) would not consider either a skiff, but I think that many in the UK would agree with me - a B14 is and a 5o5 isn't.  Whatever you think it has been interesting to learn so much about the development of boats.

With respect, Skiffman, surely the definition must be based on something more than "I think" or "it looks cool and goes fast".

From the very first 12' skiff Interdominion (there is no worlds for 12s) they allowed dinghies to compete - but only because the 12' skiffs wanted to beat up on them to show how fast they were. In fact, the dinghies won, and the skiffies were REALLY peeved off; it got quite nasty around the club because no-one called the dinghies (sorta like old Cherubs) skiffs and they wanted skiffs to win. They knew that skiffs were different from dinghies.

The same thing happened when the Cherubs started racing; the 12'er guys normally speak of "skiffs" and of Cherubs, racing with the skiffs. Maybe it's like Hobie Tigers and F18s, the other F18s can race with the Tigers but that doesn't mean they ARE Tigers.

In the second Interdominion, the rules allowed a cat to enter and clean up. So unless we'll call a cat a skiff, we can't go on what is allowed to race in the Interdominions to rule what a "skiff" is.

Tornado Alive sails 18s and other skiffs, and other classes that are claiming to be skiffs but aren't, so he has a good viewpoint. I'm actually willing to call a 49er a skiff, but hmmmm, maybe I should apply one of my own rules and say that in the bar and the Squaddie or Belmont 16s and see if I survive.....

I just realised, reading Jim's post, one probable reason why the term is viewed  differently up north and down here.  From a northern hemisphere viewpoint, the Cherub, the Javelin and other southern dinghies only arrived there in the late '60s, and they were lighter than the "normal" UK dinghies, so they seem a lot like a skiff. Then there was the big noise about skiff types when the B18/49er/5000/Boss/4000/B14 arrived, and the "skiff" tag fitted the new wave.

But from an Australian/NZ viewpoint, the dinghies actually lead the way towards the modern lightweight boat. The skiffs were lumbering round-bilged overweight non-trap beasts until dinghy influences like the NZ IA and Z and I-14 dinghies, the Gwen 12, the Cherub, the FD, the Sharpie, and the VJ arrived to show the skiffies what you could do with trapezes, lightweight hard chined hulls, efficient rigs etc. The 12s were influenced by G12s and Cherubs, the 14s were influenced by VJs, the 16s were influenced by G12s and VJ-type 14s, and the 18s were influenced by FDs and Sharpies. In all cases, the lumbering old skiffs were killed by the dinghies.

There was actually a lot of venom directed at those who  brought the lightweight dinghy-style designs into the skiff classes. In every case, the skiffies told the lightweights to go away. Now, of course all of this is ancient history, but it shows that the real "skiff breakthrough" actually came from dinghies, and was then pushed onto a rather resisting, grumpy and conservative skiff world.

So here we didn't historically think of a light dinghy (ie Cherub) as a skiff-style boat; in fact it's more correct to say that the modern skiff is a Cherub (etc) -style boat, because the Cherub/FD/G12/Sharpie/Z/VJ dinghies really created the lightweight skiff - not the other way around.

The Kiwi R Class is called a skiff these days, but it was called a dinghy when it was the most advanced dinghy in the worlds (ie 35kg hulls, two crew both trapping off racks, fully-battened high-aspect rig, all by 1974....).

Anyway, sorry for blabbing on, but this thread has really reminded me of something that I must highlight in a little project I'm working on. Thanks all .