Getting rolled

   i have the same problem as wild wood. how do you defend your wind on a long reach without following everyone else and being forced high.

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mike ellis Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 30 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2339	Post Options Post Reply Quote mike ellis Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Getting rolled Posted: 19 Feb 07 at 1:30pm
	i have the same problem as wild wood. how do you defend your wind on a long reach without following everyone else and being forced high.
	600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318

redback Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502	Post Options Post Reply Quote redback Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 07 at 11:26pm
	glewis might have something there. But before you do anything you have to have made a decision about whether you want to go left or right. If you let boats down below, you are condemed to continue on the starboard gybe until they gybe away. If you go low and gybe you will be on port on a collision course with those coming up to the mark on starboard and you'll have port takers coming up below you calling "windward boat". You have to already have decided which way to go. If you want to retain freedom to gybe away then sail a bit deep and let the less thoughful roll you and then gybe away. If you want to continue on the starboard gybe then this is likely to be slightly headed and it'll be difficult for the others to go over you without going to high for a good VMG. However this is not the time to fluff the hoist as you don't want to get rolled and have to gybe away. So maybe before the hoist a little luff or dive to leeward will steer the boat behind into a position which is good for you. As I have said before I'm better at talking about it than doing it!

glewis Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 05 May 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 79	Post Options Post Reply Quote glewis Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 07 at 1:36pm
	Then the options which are left to you after the windwrard mark are:- 1. Sail very high and force people to go beneath you. 2. Gybe away and try to find clear air. 3. Go deep, raise the kite quickly and look to accelrate away from whomever is behind you. None of these options appear to be good, so may be the answer is to looks at what you can do before you reach the mark because it sounds like you cannot really avoid the inevitable happening once you have rounded the mark if you have someone sitting on your transom. Thoughts/criticisms/abuse? Giles Solution 414

WildWood Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 14 Nov 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 136	Post Options Post Reply Quote WildWood Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 07 at 1:31pm
	Broad reach legs, after rounding the mark everyone starts luffing up to avoid getting sailed over. This results in the fleet sailing a long bow leg rather than straight to the next mark. If you go straight to the mark and sail the shortest distance you get bad air. The other option of going lower to find clear air never seems to work.

glewis Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 05 May 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 79	Post Options Post Reply Quote glewis Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 07 at 12:52pm
	Ok, just a guess, but round the mark and continue staying high and force them to go beneath you, at that point raise the kite, although they may at that point start to roll you.......oh. Goes to lie down with a cold towel wrapped round the head.

Matt Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 05 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote Matt Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 07 at 4:00pm
	Fast Assymetric sailing (eg 49er) rounding the windward mark and setting the kite, defending from one boat close astern. If you bear away and hoist (hence slowing down) they sail over the top blanketing you and then hoist and overtake whilst you wait for the wind to come back. If you Gybe they do the same, blanket and again sail over you. If you delay the kite hoist and stay high, so do they but you have to hoist at somepoint and then they overtake you. How do you defend from this type of tactic, other than not letting another boat get that close in the first place. Even rounding the mark in a bunch someone will still do this to you. What I normally do is gybe right on the mark and hope they don't manage to do the same, hence they can't follow, but with an equal opposition they will be able to follow and overtake every time. cheers Matt
	Matt RS700 933

Sarah B Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Groupie Joined: 15 Mar 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 92	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sarah B Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 12 Feb 07 at 2:22pm
	One design racing - Lasers yesterday. Defended my spot on a tight reach (flat water, about 15ktsish), but the other lasers were close behind, then had to round mark onto a run/broad reach where two boats opt to go to windward of me and one to leeward. What should I do to defend? I don't want to go too high and let the person to leeward sail the shortest route to the mark, but then if I go low, I get rolled. As it happens the two above rolled me, but I over took one on the next beat. So I ultimately lost one place. Grrh.
	A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

redback Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502	Post Options Post Reply Quote redback Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Feb 07 at 9:13pm
	Yes, rounding the weather mark and hitting the right angle in an asymmetric is difficult. If in doubt I go low so I can at least gybe away, but it is very easy to get sucked into going for speed and often too high to defend ones wind. Anyway how do you judge if the boat going higher is in fact getting to leewardfaster then you?

Rob.e Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 19 Oct 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 543	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rob.e Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Feb 07 at 6:12pm
	The weather in blighty is shighty, thank you very much, and we are not waiting for wind, it's blowing a gale (which in many cases is causing the snow to drift, so off!)

Pierre Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1532	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pierre Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Feb 07 at 1:54pm
	No, and we all hope it rains very soon