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tack'ho View Drop Down
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Posts: 1100 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tack'ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 2:55pm

Originally posted by getafix



Thank goodness the trend got a rare reversal when they bunged the outdated, flimsy, super tweaky and super expensive Europe for a boat at least 90% of the planets' aspiring Olympic sailors could access and actually sail in the hope that the person who wins will actually be the best sailor (as in the mens Laser) rather than just the best string puller or the person with the biggest training budget.

I think you'll find that this is the main determiner of who does well in the laser!
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Posts: 985 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 5:06pm
Tack'ho You honestly think the person who does best in the Laser is the one who has the biggest budget! What do you base this on?
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Posts: 1682 		Post Options Post Options   Quote KnightMare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 5:09pm
That may be tru but it doesnt mean that they are doind well because they have a big budget its does work the other way round too.
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by tack'ho

Originally posted by getafix



Thank goodness the trend got a rare reversal when they bunged the outdated, flimsy, super tweaky and super expensive Europe for a boat at least 90% of the planets' aspiring Olympic sailors could access and actually sail in the hope that the person who wins will actually be the best sailor (as in the mens Laser) rather than just the best string puller or the person with the biggest training budget.

I think you'll find that this is the main determiner of who does well in the laser!

Rubbish. Look at the medal table - some of the top Laser performers are from (comparatively) poor countries. In any case I think the point getafix was making was that the Laser provides a much fairer 'playing field' than the Europe (or any other comparatively technical boat). In the Europe,  budget for training and testing was mega important.



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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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Posts: 985 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 5:33pm

Back to the orginal topic... From the Daily Sail:

Although ISAF have said that they have not made any decisions on what boat the female skiff could replace the options are reasonably small. We have thought about this and think that the most likely course of action is to replace the women’s 470 with the new female skiff, make the 49er the men’s double handed class and then make the remaining 470 class an open class. This would also have the advantage of there being some male and female teams in the Olympics, as the 470 requires a very light helm and bigger crew. Sailors often talk about how good it is that men and women can compete against one another side-by-side surely it would be a good thing to showcase this at the highest level of the sport. These changes would leave the Olympic line-up as:

Laser men’s single handed dinghy
Laser Radial women’s single handed dinghy
Finn open single handed dinghy
49er men’s double handed dinghy
New high performance boat women’s double handed dinghy
470 open double handed boat
Yngling women’s keelboat
Star men’s keelboat
Tornado open catamaran
RS:X men’s and women’s windsurfer

 

So what would the impact be on the 470?

 

Female crews go 29erXX sailing?

Male crews stay 470 sailing?

Then it is who is better: boys or girls at helming!!!

 
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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 5:40pm
The point I should have made more clearly was that the classes which are most outdated  in terms of original design date; Star, Finn, Yngling, 470, Tornada mostly look it, despite expensive upgrades like carbon spars and advanced construction.  They have become more of a hindrance to wider participation in Olympic sailing than a help.

Could we visualise a talented sailor from Africa or the Indian sub-continent having the budget or access to do a Star campaign without moving to US/Europe?  If the answer is, yes you can campaign these boats but you have to live outside of your home nation then that's not helping your home association build up support - the great thing about the Laser is it's cheap, accessible and widley distributed - just like hurdles and running tracks for the comparison.

The fun aspect is that unless the sport looks like fun and the boats are fun to sail (which I know will always be limited by the seriousness of the sport at that level) then it's hard to see how people will be inspired to campaign them for 4 years.  Most comentators for example seem to believe that 4yrs in a Yngling is basically torture - but 4yrs in a 29erxx or similar skiff? at least you could let your hair down occassionally and thrash it round a harbour for an 1hr!
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Posts: 2339 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 5:53pm

Originally posted by getafix

The point I should have made more clearly was that the classes which are most outdated  in terms of original design date; Star, Finn, Yngling, 470, Tornada mostly look it, despite expensive upgrades like carbon spars and advanced construction.  They have become more of a hindrance to wider participation in Olympic sailing than a help.

 

tornado? looking outdated? to me it looks exciting and fast. it doesnt look outdated. it has an asymetric that cant be too outdated.

also what are the other choices apart from the 29erxx?
600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
Also International 14, 1318
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Posts: 1047 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hurricane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 6:23pm
the tornado is no way outdated if anything its still up there cutting it with the best of them, as far as im awear its still the fastest production catamaran in the world!
lifes to short to sail slow boats!

RIP Olympic Tornado 1976-2007
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Posts: 76 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DaveT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 7:13pm

I think the best thing coming out of this will be mixed crews in the 470 if thats the way it ends up going. Will do far more for sailing IMO than just a more exciting boat for the ladies.

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Posts: 775 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 8:57pm

Something very odd in the olympic choice of boats.  And like getafix says, what a discouragement from joining in.

The Finn as the open boat?  How many women sail Finns?

Finn AND laser? When there are proper performance single handers about?

So why a ladies performance boat at all;  the 49er is an open class and if women are supposed to sail Finns, surely they're managing the 9er.

....... nearly as weird as the RYA pushing toppers....
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