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Another club closure

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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 22 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by Do Different

Sailing or Racing. Strikes me more than ever two distinctly different activities possibly attracting completely different mind sets and ambitions. What are you trying to sell, a sport or a pleasant in quite often relaxing pastime locations. Who are selling it to, competitive "Strava time" types or the mindfulness and well being set? 
  

The beauty is that it offers something to both.
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CT249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 22 at 12:10am
Originally posted by fab100

This is an interesting discussion and I've so far only been lurking, with not much to add until now.

I absolutely agree the great-god television is a bane in so many ways. 

But so far, I think we've missed a major barrier to entry; when it comes to club racing, particularly in dinghies, we've all got too good in a hugely skill's-based sport. (even you TT)

Look at the photos from back in the 'heyday'  - the clothing was crap, the sails were often awful (much of any Mirror fleet with the lowest-bidder Jeckells sails) and the majority were bumbling around, not flat, not trimmed, rig not tuned and with no idea what a wind shift or bend was.

A beginner therefore had company. 

It's not like that anymore. Our club's Cadet and Tera fleets get more formal training in a season than an Olympian used to over a campaign, back when it was every amateur (or even "amateur") for himself.

Sails are better, boats are better, clothing's better and some of us have had decades of practice getting better. Anyone starting from scratch, aged over 25 (say) is really going to struggle.

Jumping on a bike, or a paddleboard does not require dinghy racing's diverse skill and knowledge sets in the same way. Ours being the ultimate sport is truly both a blessing and a curse.

We can be as inclusive as Scandinavian convention on woke-ness, but in being inclusive we should surely recognise that it's a damn steep learning curve for anyone and everyone that starts from scratch.

Annoyingly, I don't have a magic bullet for this (not even my book is the universal panacea, dammit). Even when we baby-boomers shuffle off, too many have passed the knowledge to the offspring. Perhaps the answer is a pitch simply that sailing is the ultimate sport, for life, and you need to get (your kids) in on the secret. And get Jo Rowling to shift her focus Arthur Ransome-wards.

Extremely good point about a major problem.

We seem to be having success getting around it at our club (which has a high proportion of new sailors) by specifically stating that our emphasis is on us all getting better, rather than who wins each week as it was in the past. We also ensure that the front of the fleet spends a significant amount of time coaching the new sailors. They appreciate the assistance so much (and the improvement they can see because of it) that it seems to counteract the problem caused by the skill difference to a significant extent.

The old guard at the club were great in many ways, but while they regretted the fact that the few new sailors got left miles behind, they also refused to do anything about it like coaching or changing the courses. The inevitable result is that all of the new sailors who joined soon left.  

The other thing is that if you do have a big skills gap then it can get rid of the tension you can sometimes get when the racing is closer, winning locally is the aim, and the pecking order is still being sorted out.


Edited by CT249 - 17 May 22 at 12:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 22 at 5:24am
Yes Sam of course it offers both and it sounds to me as if you also embrace both.

My point was that questions on here are often poorly defined. When some people talk about sailing they are actually talking exclusively about racing. Simply sailing has a lot to offer in it's own right with no need to ever progress, even saying progress implies simply sailing is a lesser activity, to racing. 

It appears to me that the majority of the outdoor activities which have shown growth in recent time are in the main non competitive. Park runs, paddle boarding, mountain biking, gravel biking, open water swimming come to mind.

My own club seems to be gradually re-growing the membership while racing has declined dramatically in the 15 years since I moved to this area. SUP has arrived, the Windsurfing certainly has grown especially in youth participation and the boat park has a larger proportion of non racing focussed boats. Doubtless many factors are involved, some negative and some positive but that is the snapshot I see.
 

The membership is pretty much all white but that does reflect the wider county which is also pretty much all white, mostly Cheviot or Scotch half bred sheep.

Edit to add. Non white participation in the whole range of outdoor activities, but interestingly not athletics or football,  does seems to be quite low, a question I've seen raised on such as BBC Country File. What is going on, or not going on, are we seeing exclusion, cultural preferences or perhaps natural ability.
Maybe sailing is simply not cool. 


Edited by Do Different - 17 May 22 at 6:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 22 at 7:54am
Originally posted by Do Different

]Maybe sailing is simply not cool.†


It never has been - which is itís beauty

I attended an (allegedly) elite university - our sailing club was a reasonably diverse mix of sub cultures at our uni. We bonded over Oasis, but other than that there was a healthy balance of private and state educated, science and arts students, geeks, nerds, northerners, southerners and those in between

It was myself along with another guy (club commodore) who almost forced the AU to fund a womenís team for the first time because we absolutely championed equality and opportunity before diversity was the buzz word of today.

Compare that to the mens rugby club, or worse the mens boat club.

No one had to drink their own puke with their cock in a sock to join the sailing club Ö.

Edited by turnturtle - 17 May 22 at 7:54am
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 22 at 10:28am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Do Different

]Maybe sailing is simply not cool. 



No one had to drink their own puke with their cock in a sock to join the sailing club Ö.



......ah, yes that old routine. So many memories Big smile

Each organisation has it's own hidden or not so hidden agenda. Many participants in sports clubs require that people "Grow a pair" or "Man up". 

I don't think sailing is special in the great scheme of things. It might be special to you and I but most people have their own special things.

Teaching self reliance was mentioned?
The kids I grew up with in the 60's learned that elsewhere. 

When it comes to human requirements (or needs) most of the things that sailing clubs provide can be learned, acquired or practised elsewhere. The difference with sailing and some other sports is that they can provide, in one place so many of those things. Other folk may have to hunt around in several different places to satisfy those requirements. A bit of Structure here, some socialising there, mental stimulation somewhere else, health and fitness requirements somewhere completely different.

We all have a need to fit in, to belong. We will all compromise our own individual needs to some degree to fit in. The degree to which some folk will go in order to fit in is really quite shocking. I personally will not stick my cock in a sock......so don't ask.

The one shop idea sounds great but it does tend to promote like mindedness and attract folk that prefer a lot of structure. This is true of most organisations that coincidentally cater for these things. Some people don't need as much structure or they get the need met elsewhere and may go windsurfing.

Diversity begins here. We all have basic human needs and we also have individual preferences in how we get those requirements met.


A long winded way of saying horses for courses.

What is your club supplying? 
What does it say on the Label? 
What else does it supply that is essential for healthy living that isn't on the Label? 
What (quite often painful) compromises are people making in order to get this unadvertised stuff?














Edited by Sussex Lad - 17 May 22 at 11:09am
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 22 at 12:22pm
I guess the question is:

What compromises can individuals, SC's and the RYA make in order to accommodate different perspectives. How far is it prepared to go to have wider appeal and embrace diversity? 

This worth a thread all of it's own.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 22 at 12:28pm
Sussex lad, what do you think the problem is? I am finding your posts increasingly hard to follow,this must be how being excluded feels, enlighten us non university types.
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 22 at 12:43pm
Thumbs Up

Don't worry 423. I'm done for a while. I think I've made my point very clearly. 
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Mark Aged 42 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Aged 42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 22 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad


This worth a thread all of it's own.

There is already, on Dinghy Yarns - 

Diversity and lack of it

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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 22 at 5:53pm
Grass roots football appears to be in free fall too, article on the evening news, difference is everyone's rushing around to find funding to prop it up.
Robert
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