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eric_c View Drop Down
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Joined: 21 Jan 18
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 22 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by fab100

Originally posted by Grumpycat

PY is not a LESSER type of racing its just a DIFFERENT type of racing  Big smile.
Sorry rant over  Smile


...and it could be argued, that in PY racing, there's often more chance of actual on the water racing - class racing sometimes gets spread out early and that can mostly be that. In PY (handicap or pursuit) there can be more of a melting pot. Personally, I love the chase of a pursuit, where I start about a week next Tuesday after the Cadets and Teras and have to try and time-travel to catch 'em.


In class racing, if we get spread out, it's usually because the boats ahead of me are being sailed better. In PY racing, there is often more interaction between boats, like fast boats that get poor starts getting all over the wind of well sailed slow boats, Lasers and sym boats getting luffed by asys,  Mirrors getting in the way when you lap them, the odd capsized fastboat to dodge around. All great fun, but people know what boats the weather and course will favour, and the few people who have any faith in the numbers are mosty misguided about how the system works or what it's trying to do. 
Maybe in a big club with 6 or 10 each of say Dzeros and Lasers, and properly adjusted numbers it's different. But in small clubs, it's about as scientific or serious as banger racing. Which might actually turn out to be what a lot of sailors want.
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 22 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by fab100

Originally posted by Grumpycat

PY is not a LESSER type of racing its just a DIFFERENT type of racing  Big smile.
Sorry rant over  Smile


...and it could be argued, that in PY racing, there's often more chance of actual on the water racing - class racing sometimes gets spread out early and that can mostly be that. In PY (handicap or pursuit) there can be more of a melting pot. Personally, I love the chase of a pursuit, where I start about a week next Tuesday after the Cadets and Teras and have to try and time-travel to catch 'em.

This could be why I have different view of py racing than others. Over 90% of the races we sail at my club are pursuits. Big smile
I had better not mention the the fact the my first club , where I learnt to sail , sailed mostly personal handicap pursuits as class racing lovers on here might just spontaneously combust with the total injustice of this type of sailing .  LOL And guess what the best sailors still won all the prizes . 


Edited by Grumpycat - 23 May 22 at 5:21pm
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 22 at 4:53pm
Eric-c, Banger racing , what tosh. But even if it was true, it’s still more fun than club class racing where every one knows where they will finish in the race before they even get on the water.
The best sailors still win all the overall prizes in py racing but at least you have a bit of variety along the way . Smile


Edited by Grumpycat - 23 May 22 at 4:57pm
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 22 at 5:02pm
Pursuit racing can be fun. But the arguments about the best way to finish them can be as bad as discussing PY banditry. Plus the fatal flaw of everyone heading for the showers at the same time!
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 22 at 5:06pm
Shouldn't be any argument about a pursuit race finish. The race lasts a certain amount of time, and at the end of that time there is a winner. Sailing to the next mark, or whatever, is just a copout, copied from the BM, where sheer numbers preclude the fairest method.

Can you tell I sail a slow boat?!
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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The Moo View Drop Down
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Posts: 807 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 22 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by eric_c


Originally posted by fab100


[QUOTE=Grumpycat]
PY is not a LESSER type of racing its just a DIFFERENT type of racing  Big smile.
Sorry rant over  Smile

... But in small clubs, it's about as scientific or serious as banger racing. Which might actually turn out to be what a lot of sailors want.


I think you are being a little disingenuous to people who participate in banger racing. I'll bet they do take it seriously.

That said, looking at the age of some of the boats in our fleets you could argue we are indeed banger racing.😊

Said it before, but will say it again, when our club ditched class racing 30 years or so ago it was one of the best thing it ever did. Never looked back.

Fab 100's description of a pursuit race in an earlier post is what we experience most Sundays and currently with the element of personal handicaps thrown in for the Spring series it really is something for everyone. "But it's not Class racing so it's not proper racing" I hear you say. Try telling that to those sailing at our Club yesterday. Despite challenging (shifty) conditions it was an absolute hoot to sail and watch. They were talking positively about it in the bar afterwards until kicking out time. Cracking day and I was on duty. (Oh no the "D" word😁)
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 22 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by Grumpycat

Eric-c, Banger racing , what tosh. But even if it was true, it’s still more fun than club class racing where every one knows where they will finish in the race before they even get on the water.....
Isn'tthat why club cyclists like the sportives? Maybe I'm lucky in that in my class racing this year, there are five of us in the pack, I've beaten each of the other four, alas not all in any one race, and each of them has beaten me. A few others we need to keep track of too. Not bad for a small locals' club doing thngs pretty cheaply. Thursday night PY at my other club is a contrast, more about me vs the windshifts and blast in a faster boat sometimes.
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 22 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Shouldn't be any argument about a pursuit race finish. The race lasts a certain amount of time, and at the end of that time there is a winner. Sailing to the next mark, or whatever, is just a copout, copied from the BM, where sheer numbers preclude the fairest method.

Can you tell I sail a slow boat?!

Very true . On a small puddle it’s easy to know where everyone finish’s at the same time or on a bigger piece of water just go out on the rescue boat and motor back though the fleet and finish them one at a time . 

I have to say I prefer sailing a fast boat in pursuits. I know it’s all in my head, but I would rather fight my way though the fleet to finish 5th than be overtaken by four boats in the last 10mins and finish 5th .  Smile
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 22 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by eric_c

Originally posted by Grumpycat

Eric-c, Banger racing , what tosh. But even if it was true, it’s still more fun than club class racing where every one knows where they will finish in the race before they even get on the water.....
Isn'tthat why club cyclists like the sportives? Maybe I'm lucky in that in my class racing this year, there are five of us in the pack, I've beaten each of the other four, alas not all in any one race, and each of them has beaten me. A few others we need to keep track of too. Not bad for a small locals' club doing thngs pretty cheaply. Thursday night PY at my other club is a contrast, more about me vs the windshifts and blast in a faster boat sometimes.

Err nope . Some top club cyclists might consider a closed road sportives a time trial but never a race . If they want to race they sign up to a race . The clue is in the name .  Wink
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 22 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by Grumpycat

Originally posted by Rupert

Shouldn't be any argument about a pursuit race finish. The race lasts a certain amount of time, and at the end of that time there is a winner. Sailing to the next mark, or whatever, is just a copout, copied from the BM, where sheer numbers preclude the fairest method.

Can you tell I sail a slow boat?!

Very true . On a small puddle it’s easy to know where everyone finish’s at the same time or on a bigger piece of water just go out on the rescue boat and motor back though the fleet and finish them one at a time . 

I have to say I prefer sailing a fast boat in pursuits. I know it’s all in my head, but I would rather fight my way though the fleet to finish 5th than be overtaken by four boats in the last 10mins and finish 5th .  Smile

And what is supposed to happen if the last leg is a beat and it's not blatant who is in front?
Or even a dead run?
 I've sailed  enough pursuits to see a few come unravelled. Most seem to use 'spaghetti' courses to reduce the issues, but that's not something I'd want to do every week. In a decent sized fleet, you will often get boats just started a leg when the gun goes.
Yes, I prefer a fast boat, so you look forwards and overtake.
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