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Laser with a carbon mast??

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eric_c View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 10:25am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Assuming the better sailors are racing at clubs that have fleet racing for L@sers their results won't show up in the returns. Add to that that it's likely to be, mostly, said better sailors who have adopted the carbon top section then that is unlikely to have much, if any, affect on the PN.

That doesn't explain why the PN has gone up though...


PN's go up because the RYA calculates that they've gone up.
Laser, IlCA, Ovington or people racing on the water get on with sailing, they don't have any role in calculating PY changes.

The 'carbon' composite spars are not much of a game changer, they just break a lot less often, particularly when Lasers are sailed hard at top level. The average UK PY puddle sailor probably didn't break many ali spars. People doing class events on the sea or big lakes were breaking too many, engineering out some of the recurrent breakages was well overdue.

Ironically, half-bright whining about the Laser's PY is a reminder why people like class racing where it's not an issue. Just remember that the Laser PYs are based on a lot more data than most others.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 11:17am
Originally posted by eric_c


Just remember that the Laser PYs are based on a lot more data than most others.


And always have been. In my time our local series was won by a Laser sailing off 1078, back in what 2004?Honestly I've lost interest in the whole charade now, which I know I'm meant to, because the whole thing is geared to make class racing seem the Holy Grail which it really isnt.
But whatever, every now and then, like this weekend just gone, something good happens, our youngest entrant has been away training in his Topper, and took both races on spreadsheet and nobody could be happier for him than me.

Lasers also have their place, they provide a good steady input of cheapskate tightwads which are of course perfect dinghy sailors and might one day become GP14 sailors.

Edited by iGRF - 19 Apr 22 at 11:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 11:32am
Will be interesting to see if the PY of a Laser diverges from that of an ILCA
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

Will be interesting to see if the PY of a Laser diverges from that of an ILCA

laser sailing and in a handicap race ... 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 12:27pm
Does anyone know how iGRF keeps dropping random posts in, several occasions now I've noticed a post appear back in time? I can only guess that he puts a post in, clicks post options and then leaves it open, but, only guessing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by boatshed

Originally posted by 423zero

No, number is slower year on year.


Oh. Must be the only class that adopted a carbon mast and went slower. Never mind, it was just my surprise at seeing carbon sticks on a Laser. Iíve not really sailed for two years, which explains a lot


Witty comment

The weight, bending characteristics and CoG are supposed to be the same as the tin one. As has been said above, the change is about robustness and longevity. Hence performance of the boat should be unchanged. The PY returns of the sailors sailing Lasers/ILCAs in handicap races suggest those people were performing relatively less well. But given the last PY update was 2021 based on results from the preceding year, I doubt a statistically significant number of those boats had a composite top section costing £550. Iíd wager more were sailing with damage-induced pre-bent (aka slow) tin top sections than composite ones.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote GybeFunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Does anyone know how iGRF keeps dropping random posts in, several occasions now I've noticed a post appear back in time? I can only guess that he puts a post in, clicks post options and then leaves it open, but, only guessing.

I believe his posts are first vetted by someone in charge of this forum before appearing for all of us to view. I get the emails that notify me of replies and you can see in his posts it says 'Verified by: xxx'.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by boatshed

Originally posted by 423zero

No, number is slower year on year.


Oh. Must be the only class that adopted a carbon mast and went slower. Never mind, it was just my surprise at seeing carbon sticks on a Laser. Iíve not really sailed for two years, which explains a lot

Itís only the top section and it is designed to replicate the same mast bend so the only real difference is the the fact it weighs a bit lighter ( and before a ILCA sailor comes on and says it weighs the same as the old ali section . This was confirmed to me in writing by the Australian manufacturer  Smile )

To put this into prospective. The Supernova changed to a epoxy build a few year ago and the minimum weight dropped from about 62kg to 50kg. Did itís handicap get harder ? No, it got slightly easier because all that happened was it attracted a lot of slow sailors to the class .
Also I  donít remember any of the normal suspects on here calling the Supernova a bandit when this happened at the time .  Smile


Edited by Grumpycat - 19 Apr 22 at 2:14pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by boatshed

Thks. Kafkaesque. Did the PY number decrease to reflect a better mast?

Depends what you regard as better. Breaks less is definitely an improvement, but will have no effect on handicaps since DNFs are excluded from the calculations. I think the Laser spars are unique or nearly so in being especially designed to negate the performance advantages normally associated with carbon spars.

As to separate handicaps for Laser branded boats and ILCA branded boats, that would depend on clubs reporting the results separately, which I rather doubt will happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 2:25pm
if helps keep insurance premiums down, then it's progress... personally I always felt awkward claiming for a top section, it definitely hovers in the 'known running cost' area of general maintenance, of which Laser sailors are spared a fair amount compared to a lot of classes.
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