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Is speed in the head or the hull?
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 981 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 4:41pm
Being the beancounter I am, I once (turns out it was 2008) created a "where did it all go wrong" spreadsheet. It covered :
Race variables - number of laps, marks, beats/runs per lap, number of shifts per beat/run and more
Things that can go wrong - nearly 30-off (and this was for Frensham, so no tide accounted for)
Then counted the maximum number of occurrences of each sin (eg there's only one start but lots of shifts)
And the number of times you might make that error (eg taking 720s)
And cost per error in boat lengths (this varies per boat, capsizing an Enterprise is many times more costly than for a Laser, unless the latter's mast gets stuck in the mud)

All giving the boat lengths lost, which I then ranked.

The example file I just checked showed how you could easily lose 11 minutes in an hour FPSC race, which seems about right when comparing say Roger Gilbert to a not very good Laser sailor around Frensham.

As I was primarily thinking of Lasers. not So-slos, there's no factor for hull shape.

Given it was for Frensham, windshifts up the beats came out as 5 times as good a way to lose distance than the next biggest factor


Edited by fab100 - 06 Apr 22 at 4:42pm
Great book for Club Sailors here
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3199 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 5:05pm
Running dead downwind in a gale gives a good impression of speed, especially when the leg is ending in a gybe.
Robert
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1251 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by fab100

Being the beancounter I am, I once (turns out it was 2008) created a "where did it all go wrong" spreadsheet. It covered :
Race variables - number of laps, marks, beats/runs per lap, number of shifts per beat/run and more
Things that can go wrong - nearly 30-off (and this was for Frensham, so no tide accounted for)
Then counted the maximum number of occurrences of each sin (eg there's only one start but lots of shifts)
And the number of times you might make that error (eg taking 720s)
And cost per error in boat lengths (this varies per boat, capsizing an Enterprise is many times more costly than for a Laser, unless the latter's mast gets stuck in the mud)

All giving the boat lengths lost, which I then ranked.

The example file I just checked showed how you could easily lose 11 minutes in an hour FPSC race, which seems about right when comparing say Roger Gilbert to a not very good Laser sailor around Frensham.

As I was primarily thinking of Lasers. not So-slos, there's no factor for hull shape.

Given it was for Frensham, windshifts up the beats came out as 5 times as good a way to lose distance than the next biggest factor

Respect but.............. Jeez!! 
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 359 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by fab100

Being the beancounter I am, I once (turns out it was 2008) created a "where did it all go wrong" spreadsheet. It covered :
Race variables - number of laps, marks, beats/runs per lap, number of shifts per beat/run and more
Things that can go wrong - nearly 30-off (and this was for Frensham, so no tide accounted for)
Then counted the maximum number of occurrences of each sin (eg there's only one start but lots of shifts)
And the number of times you might make that error (eg taking 720s)
And cost per error in boat lengths (this varies per boat, capsizing an Enterprise is many times more costly than for a Laser, unless the latter's mast gets stuck in the mud)

All giving the boat lengths lost, which I then ranked.

The example file I just checked showed how you could easily lose 11 minutes in an hour FPSC race, which seems about right when comparing say Roger Gilbert to a not very good Laser sailor around Frensham.

As I was primarily thinking of Lasers. not So-slos, there's no factor for hull shape.

Given it was for Frensham, windshifts up the beats came out as 5 times as good a way to lose distance than the next biggest factor

On a small course, being 1/4 boatlength behind will cost you another boatlength at the mark, as boats round one at a time or you have to go wide. Obviously more significant with boats aof the same class.

Any lack of pointing can cost you dear as you get sucked into dirty air
Weight aloft or weight inthe ends costs a lot in choppy water, not much on a flat lake?

Personally, if I want to take the racing seriously, I want a boat which I know to be as good as the rivals I have a chance of keeping up with. I don't care if there's some olympic squad dude with  a new boat and a vnew sail every week, but the people I should be capable of keeping up with, I want to be on equal terms, so I have no excuses. If I go  slower than them, then there must be something I can learn to do better, something I can learn from them, or I have made wrong choices. On the other hand I can enjoy a handicap race where nobody worries much about the results, just actually enjoy the sailing and try to make sense of the shifts and wind bends.

In two-person boats there is a lot to be said for not taking all the racing too seriously. Just get out there and have a go and if you've only got an old boat with tired sails, no worries about not being seen to do well on points etc. No excessive expectations, no need to blame each other. Different place in your head.
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 981 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 9:46pm
The trouble with good boatspeed is that, if you go the wrong way, it’s a lot further to come back. (Paul Elvstrom)
Great book for Club Sailors here
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3313 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 22 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by fab100

The trouble with good boatspeed is that, if you go the wrong way, it’s a lot further to come back. (Paul Elvstrom)

And, I believe, his training boat hulls were shocking, peeling paint on the bottom, he said that a polished bottom would gain him less than a single missed wind shift and the time was better spent on the water practicing.
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1283 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 22 at 9:29am
On the Solos, the old Winders, Speeds and Boons are all the same underwater shape as their modern counterparts, and I am pretty sure that they retain their stiffness.  Assuming that the Solos that you are looking at have not been trashed or abused, and knowing that you can tidy up the foils, I would concentrate an making sure that you have a rig that is suited to you (your weight) and where you are sailing.  

The D+ has been mast of choice for the past few years and makes quite a big difference to performance across the range.  The Cumulus was the previous mast of choice but is hard work in a blow.  Also sight down the mast track when buying since quite a few get bent.  If you don't get a decent sail with the boat, most of the "hot shots" will be happy to sell you a decent sail for a lot less than a new one.
Happily living in the past
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1283 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 22 at 9:31am
Originally posted by iGRF

At our level victorys are more often gained by the mistakes of others imv. I can't sail a dinghy for sh1t, in my mind I'm the slowest (and usually the oldest) out there, but I know stuff, I see stuff others don't and when they drop the ball which they always do, I sometimes do very well. When it's very windy not so much.

So I think speed around a course is in your head, occasionally I might fix the slot flushers and get a bit of an extra turn of boat speed.

But it's more down to.

Things I know.

The start is 60% of the race
Always take the tack that's taking you closest to the mark.
Always wave a port hander across rather than have him sit off your lee bow approaching a mark.
Always take the tack that'll have the tide favouring your wind pressure in the early stages of a race.
Always 'work' S 'surfs' in waves (harden along the trough bear off when the stern lifts)
Never engage in covering duals
Never enage in luffing matches on reaches
Know everyone else does and sail low on 1st reach, high on second.
Always get your line transits
Always get your mark 'best angle' transits
Don't always tack on headers if the opposite tack takes you further from the mark
Always have your head (and shoulders) out of the boat looking for..
Wind, Current, Venturi, Shadow, Obstructions, Weed,

It goes on, and on, so many tricks, it's such a great sport, you win it with your head more than your fitness or the sad beat up hulk you use.

 
+1

The only mod I would make is "Cover up the last beat" - I often regret not doing so


Edited by davidyacht - 07 Apr 22 at 9:32am
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1251 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 22 at 9:35am
See, iGRF can talk sense when he wants to. 
Or contrary devilment other times. Smile
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3199 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 22 at 10:14am
He is ill with Covid, so could be normal service when he is better
Robert
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