New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Mainsail Centre Sheeting
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Mainsail Centre Sheeting

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567>
Author
Guest View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 10:24am

Originally posted by JimC

It would be an intersting exercise to mark boats out of 10 for "roll tackiness" and then look for common factors. Start with this list of two handers with my markd


then when enough folk have scored the boats we can look for commom factors. If you don't have a mrk or one boat leave it, I'll work out an average...

Enterprise 10 
Firefly 10 
RS200 9
N12 8
RS400 8
Merlin 8
420/470/505    7
Fireball 6
Laser 4k 4 
29ER    4
Modern Cherub 1
49er 1



Edited by Guest#260
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048
Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 12:25pm
You can roll tack a Laser quite well...the trick is to get the (new) leeward gunwhale under water and have the foils just in enough to keep them gripping. The pull the boat upright, sheet in and point up.... Works wonders in light winds!

Phantoms are pretty good too (see the pic inside the cover of the Y&Y tacing classes guide...that was the exit of a roll tack (I know the sailor, he has been our club champ for the last 12 years).

Not sure on the Blaze yet (no wind yesterday....didn't get to take it out) but I am told do not dip the racks!

Paul
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
Hector View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Location: Otley, Yorkshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 750
Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

The 200 is way easier to roll tack than the Fireball ...

Rick

Originally posted by Hector

Rick -  I generally agree with most of what you say but then you usually don't just make statements with no reasoning!

I didn't say RS200s didn't roll well, but I still say they require a quite refined technique whereas in comparison, the Fireball doesn't.

 

That statement was based on experience, no analysis just quite a bit of time in both classes.

Rick

I also have some experience of both.

I don't want to get into a pointless RS vs FB tacking discussion here - and I wasn't saying that the FB rolls better than the 200. The FB probably wasn't the best example to use but like you Rick, its one I'm familiar with.

I did mean to say that just because a boat looks like it will be a good roll tacker (roundish sections, reasonable rise of floor, decent rocker etc) doesn't necessarily mean that it will be that much better than one that looks like it will be poor (Flat panels low rise of floor etc i.e. FB). There are other factors to consider.

What other factors? Well in my opinion any boat with a fully battened main would lose at least two 'points' in JimCs rating system. The main is acting as a brake on the new tack until it's 'popped' - it doesn't always pop easily, when it pops, any flow is lost, and to make it pop easier, kicker tends to be applied - which is not fast for very light conditions. Put another way, do we think an Ent or Firefly would roll tack as well with a fully battened main?

The RS200 is also prone to scooping water - making the angle of roll more critical than in many classes.  The RS requires precise technique because its awkward to get the tiller extension through the gap between mainsheet and boom. So it sometimes ends up the wrong side of the mainsheet during the roll. To counter this, many people push the tiller hard over - losing speed and over rotating the turn thus losing ground to windward.

None of the above apply to our agreed roll tacking stars - like the Ent.

Back to Top
Hector View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Location: Otley, Yorkshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 750
Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 1:56pm

Enterprise 10 
Firefly 10 
N12 Old style 9
RS400 8
Merlin 8

RS200 8
Fireball/470 7 

N12 modern 7

420 6

505
Laser 4k 5 
29ER    4
Modern Cherub
49er 2

Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8928
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 2:27pm
The British Moth, as the best river singlehander, has to rank up with the Firefly and Ent for roll tackiness, with the short waterline and massivly tall rig, The Comet is also pretty good, but the rig doesn't generate quite enough power as you pull it upright  to bring the boat "up to speed" again. We never come out of tacks faster than we go in, of course, do we folks...?!
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
Olly4088 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 10 Jan 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 424
Post Options Post Options   Quote Olly4088 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 2:38pm
Anouther boat that is a good roll tacker is an Albacore as its long and thin and also has a rounded hull aswell.
Phantom 1298
Back to Top
Hector View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Location: Otley, Yorkshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 750
Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 3:34pm
 I'd guess a Lark tacks pretty well?
Back to Top
Guest View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by Hector

Originally posted by Guest#260

The 200 is way easier to roll tack than the Fireball ...

Rick

Originally posted by Hector

Rick -  I generally agree with most of what you say but then you usually don't just make statements with no reasoning!

I didn't say RS200s didn't roll well, but I still say they require a quite refined technique whereas in comparison, the Fireball doesn't.

 

That statement was based on experience, no analysis just quite a bit of time in both classes.

Rick

I also have some experience of both.

I don't want to get into a pointless RS vs FB tacking discussion here - and I wasn't saying that the FB rolls better than the 200. The FB probably wasn't the best example to use but like you Rick, its one I'm familiar with.

I did mean to say that just because a boat looks like it will be a good roll tacker (roundish sections, reasonable rise of floor, decent rocker etc) doesn't necessarily mean that it will be that much better than one that looks like it will be poor (Flat panels low rise of floor etc i.e. FB). There are other factors to consider.

What other factors? Well in my opinion any boat with a fully battened main would lose at least two 'points' in JimCs rating system. The main is acting as a brake on the new tack until it's 'popped' - it doesn't always pop easily, when it pops, any flow is lost, and to make it pop easier, kicker tends to be applied - which is not fast for very light conditions. Put another way, do we think an Ent or Firefly would roll tack as well with a fully battened main?

The RS200 is also prone to scooping water - making the angle of roll more critical than in many classes.  The RS requires precise technique because its awkward to get the tiller extension through the gap between mainsheet and boom. So it sometimes ends up the wrong side of the mainsheet during the roll. To counter this, many people push the tiller hard over - losing speed and over rotating the turn thus losing ground to windward.

None of the above apply to our agreed roll tacking stars - like the Ent.

I guess it's down to how each person adapts to the boat then as in my experience the 200 was much easier ...

Rick

Back to Top
mike ellis View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2339
Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 6:15pm

I can roll tack a feva. they have low freeboard, deep foils, average height rig, and a full length top batten that wont pop in light airs even with kiker on . it also has very hard chines and a fine bow. please dont kill me if this goes against your theory.

btw it also has centre main that is laser style which is quite easy to sheet in up to f5.

Back to Top
Luke4485 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9
Post Options Post Options   Quote Luke4485 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by Hector


Laser 4k 5 
29ER    4 

u can roll the 4k quite abit more than the 29er this was proved when we went to the bloddy mary and a 29er tryed roll gybeing and ended up swimming

i would of said

29er 2-3    4tonner 5-6

laser 4000 4485
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy