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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 21 at 11:03pm
Itís a lovely boat BUT.

1) itís a rare beast in the uk .
2) Itís under canvassed for uk sailing conditions 
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 21 at 11:09pm
Originally posted by Brass

Surprised no one has mentioned the Tasar


How is the Tasar weight equalised? We've now got five or six racing at our place, other than them being quite light to launch and recover off the beach I don't see any equalisation method.

There's also a bunch sailing over in Whitstable, where having that extra inbred sixth finger helps with that boom spanner thing I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 21 at 11:55pm
https://www.tasar.org/media/101985/TAS2019_CR_190408.pdf

C.6 Crew Weight
C.6.1 The TASAR, while racing in all sanctioned events, shall carry a minimum total crew weight of 130 kgs.    The crew shall be dressed in shirts and shorts, swim-wear or the equivalent, without shoes, all dry, at weigh-in.
C.6.2 In the event that the weight of the crew, thus weighed, shall be less than 130 kg, such crew may race the TASAR, provided that, throughout the event, ballast equal in weight to at least the difference between the crew weight and 130 kgs is carried secured in the cockpit.    The ballast carried need not exceed 12 kg.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 22 at 12:14am
Originally posted by Brass

https://www.tasar.org/media/101985/TAS2019_CR_190408.pdf

C.6 Crew Weight
C.6.1 The TASAR, while racing in all sanctioned events, shall carry a minimum total crew weight of 130 kgs.    The crew shall be dressed in shirts and shorts, swim-wear or the equivalent, without shoes, all dry, at weigh-in.
C.6.2 In the event that the weight of the crew, thus weighed, shall be less than 130 kg, such crew may race the TASAR, provided that, throughout the event, ballast equal in weight to at least the difference between the crew weight and 130 kgs is carried secured in the cockpit.    The ballast carried need not exceed 12 kg.


OH Joy! They kept quiet about that, bet half fo them didn't know.. One of them does I bet he's been a previous class champion, am I going to give them the protest headache from hell.
Happy New Year everyone, except Tasarati!

Edited by iGRF - 01 Jan 22 at 12:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 22 at 1:55am
OH Joy! They kept quiet about that, bet half fo them didn't know.. One of them does I bet he's been a previous class champion, am I going to give them the protest headache from hell.
Happy New Year everyone, except Tasarati!


You might like to look at the rest of CR C6 at the link I posted.


Edited by Brass - 01 Jan 22 at 1:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 22 at 9:31pm
The 800 system works really well. It equalises for leverage and weight within a range. As someone who likes these things I've done all the calculations and mathematically it checks out, but also in practice it works very well.

The result is that the majority of the fleet are sailing in a very narrow bracket and even those outside the bracket are brought closer together. 

The major pro to this, is as a twin trapeze skiff that need a good size water to sail on, it's already a pretty narrow niche, so broadening out the competitive weight range help maintain good sized fleets. This is less of an issue for an olympic boat, but very welcome on the amateur scene. 

Downsides
1) is the boat is effectively 'slowed' down to equalise, if you consider maximum racks and no leads as the boats true potential (personally I find the boat plenty quick enough in equalised mode and making it any faster would likely lead to more breakages, a harder boat to sail, and smaller fleets)
2) it's admin weighing in at each event
3) lead is surprisingly expensive
4) inevitably where people aren't weighed in there are people on the wrong settings (although there is a pretty simple calculation you can do which will get you 90% there)

For me 1 isn't a negative and the rest are worth it to open up the competitive weight range. 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 22 at 9:42pm
Some further points (if professional sailors got involved)
1) Is the ideal weight for the boat above, within or below the equalised weight/ If it was found to be (and that might vary on forecast and venue) then everyone would end up off one end of the scale.
2) If you are have a BMI < 21 it is possible to be off the low end of the weight equalisation (i.e. you have the maximum 5 lead) but you are still on the leverage scale. This results in you sailing at the same leverage as the boats equalised, but lighter (always preferable)
3) If you are very tall and again have low BMI it is possible to be off the leverage equalisation but still on the weight equalisation. This means you are sailing at the same weight as the other, but with more leverage (okay if windy)
4) If you dip weight before weigh, then rehydrate, in you sail the boat heavier than everyone, but with more leverage (okay if windy and within the range of how much you can dehydrate)
5) if you bulk before weigh in (then pee / poo) you sail the boat lighter than everyone but with less leverage (okay if light and within the range of a poo / wee)

Most of those 'gains' are within a pretty narrow range and some have a downside. 

My gut feeling is that the ideal weight is within the equalised range. So unless you are confident in a forecast you'd be taking a big risk to do 1, 4 or 5. 

Guy and I fell in to line 2 for the 2020 nationals (rack 9/10 and 5 leads). If we were professional I would make sure we hit that weight every year. But, it's only a 1.5 kilo advantage.  We could have dropped about 1.5 kilo and gone to rack 10 and taken a 3 kilo advantage. But with a system weight of ~300 kilo this is very small gains.
And we've also won two nationals on rack 6 and 7 and three and four leads. And we've also won plenty on rack 5 and three leads at other events. 


Edited by Mozzy - 01 Jan 22 at 10:02pm
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PeterG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 22 at 10:20am
I'm thinking platform soles for the Contender and also wonder wether a high or low hook is a better option and when.

Interesting idea. Given what fun tacking a Contender is at the best of times for those not accomplished limbo dancers, I think they might cause problem! However, what about adjustable hydraulic ones? Shrink down to thin soles for tacking, extend them once your on the wire when it's blowing?

Low hook is the better option if there's a lot of power, and you can manage it, given whatever the sea is doing. You get a bit of extra righting moment, but also, if you heel from a nearly horizontal position the change in righting moment is small. If you're already well up you get a much larger loss of righting - what you don't want in a gust.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 22 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by PeterG

<span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue", "Lucida Grande", "Segoe UI", Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif; : rgb251, 251, 253;">I'm thinking platform soles for the Contender and also wonder wether a high or low hook is a better option and when.</span>
<span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue", "Lucida Grande", "Segoe UI", Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif; : rgb251, 251, 253;"></span>
<font face="Helvetica Neue, Lucida Grande, Segoe UI, Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Interesting idea. Given what fun tacking a Contender is at the best of times for those not accomplished limbo dancers, I think they might cause problem! However, what about adjustable hydraulic ones? Shrink down to thin soles for tacking, extend them once your on the wire when it's blowing?</span>
<font face="Helvetica Neue, Lucida Grande, Segoe UI, Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"></span>
<font face="Helvetica Neue, Lucida Grande, Segoe UI, Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Low hook is the better option if there's a lot of power, and you can manage it, given whatever the sea is doing. You get a bit of extra righting moment, but also, if you heel from a nearly horizontal position the change in righting moment is small. If you're already well up you get a much larger loss of righting - what you don't want in a gust.</span>


Inflatable shoe soles would do that..

But more seriously is it not logical to have the hook as high on ones person as possible in a breeze (and low when its light), given the better angle and leverage having the weight anchor point further away from the boat? Not that I see the range of hook height adjustability on trapeze style harnessses. Windsurfers used to have access to a range of hook heights, from chest harnesses down to low slalom seat style with wave waist style in the middle.

Edited by iGRF - 02 Jan 22 at 1:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 22 at 4:14pm
Confused Not getting your point iGRF. Given adequate core strength I cannot see how hook position on your body makes any difference; low riding jeans high or nipple warming high waisters. Yes the moment will change but as the moment increases the tension will decrease.
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