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Performance step changes.

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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 21 at 12:59pm
Foiling and weight reduction, are these the final steps for dinghy sailing? Have we reached maturity?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 21 at 2:26pm
423@ 12.59.
I would say no. 
Depends on your definition of performance .
Weight reduction maybe the holy grail for outright speed potential, as is foiling.
However they both come at a cost in terms of sail-ability and expense.
To me an ever narrowing alleyway. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 21 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Foiling and weight reduction, are these the final steps for dinghy sailing? Have we reached maturity?


No, not by a long chalk, but I think we need to quantify what we mean by performance, performance in terms of speed? Or performance in close quarter tactical dinghy racing in which the helm can just focus on the racing, not wrestling with an uncontrollable old hulk which falls over, leaks, bits break off, has a restriction on controls, requires a crane to launch and recover and which user manual was written in 1953?

To me the best things recently have been the D0 and Aero, but such a pity there were near misses of that ultimate goal. Had the Aero just been 20 cm longer, with a retracting cb and the D0 rig. Had the D Zero had some grip upfront, a retracting cb, a bit more nose (or tail)rocker and some better self baling solution.

I've sailed lots of stuff now in my quest for perfection and still it eludes me, but maybe that's part of the attraction?



Edited by iGRF - 02 Nov 21 at 2:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 21 at 4:08pm
Not light and not foiling or suitable for a shingle beach but..........

Doesn't fall over, not heard they break and not designed in 1953.

K1 ??? I know a couple of blokes who do sail respectively single sail single wire and three sail single wire dinghies; they have K1 s for winter racing and fun of going around the bay and they love em. 

The bulb keel slippery single hander could be seen as a step change for some.

Just saying  Beer

edited for weird formatting......... Confused


Edited by Do Different - 02 Nov 21 at 4:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote seastate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 21 at 5:19pm
I’ve seen K1s capsized on at least 2 occasions and required some additional weight on the ‘keel’ to right it
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wiclif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 21 at 7:36pm
I have owned my K1 for 10 years now, although unused a couple of years.
It has only fallen over once, at a Boxing Day regatta, where I was the only non Laser silly enough to go out.  A big gust came along when I wasn’t paying attention before the start, and the boat capsized.  While I was thinking “what do I do now” the boat popped up again.
I have also sailed the Laser Stratos Keel quite a lot and I found the K1 came up more easily.  I think because the boat is narrower, and the keel is longer, so has more leverage despite a distinctly lighter keel.
I have seen a photo of a capsized K1, all I can say is that it is reluctant to stay that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 21 at 11:20pm
I was mark laying for a Waszp event the other week. Volunteered as I thought there would be fast and photogenic sailing. Hmm, not really; when it's windy enough to foil, they just fly along splash free and so smoothly they don't look especially quick. When it isn't, they are just very wobbly and quite slow displacement boats.

The thing that did impress me was the work rate of the better sailors; "bouncing" the boat on its foils to get the hull out the water, then sheeting and steering.like mad to keep it foiling.

But I'd miss the feel of the boat bouncing and crashing over the water.

Not sure foiling is "the future of sailing" .. but possibly does count as a significant step change in a particular direction. And note that the fastest windsurfers are, ultimately, still the non foilers .. the foils have more drag than a board that's planing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 21 at 12:32am
Originally posted by NickA

I was mark laying for a Waszp event the other week. Volunteered as I thought there would be fast and photogenic sailing. Hmm, not really; when it's windy enough to foil, they just fly along splash free and so smoothly they don't look especially quick. When it isn't, they are just very wobbly and quite slow displacement boats.

The thing that did impress me was the work rate of the better sailors; "bouncing" the boat on its foils to get the hull out the water, then sheeting and steering.like mad to keep it foiling.

But I'd miss the feel of the boat bouncing and crashing over the water.

Not sure foiling is "the future of sailing" .. but possibly does count as a significant step change in a particular direction. And note that the fastest windsurfers are, ultimately, still the non foilers .. the foils have more drag than a board that's planing.

Not tried foiling, too old and lacking agility for a Moth but definitely considering a windsurfing foil setup. What my reading has suggested is that foils have an upper speed limit beyond which they won't go so you need different foils for different conditions which rapidly gets super expensive. If I do give it a go they'll be large area for low speed lift (and slower crashes LOL).

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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 21 at 9:43am
Well talking of 'foiling' the latest step change is the advent of 'Wing foiling' which has been gathering momentum this last couple of years. This involves holding an inflatable 'wing' which can either be used to propel a SUP or something smaller with a foil beneath it.

So what I hear y'all groaning, well 'what' is that some inland waters have opened up to the use of wing foils with the resulting influx. Kites have never been permitted inland, but Wing foils have no lines to tangle around overhead power lines or around the propellors of rescue boats and travel at the moment at slower speeds.

There are naturally growing wing foil race championships which I have to say visually look far more comfortable andf stylish than the kite foil racing arena that has foolishly adopted none water relaunchable foil kites and has a technique requirement off the scale compared even to windsurfing and windsurf foiling.

Wing foiling is also way cheaper and more accessible than wind or kite foiling, so expect to see more of it and if I were an inland club looking for more young members doing something visually different and potentially exciting, I'd get ready to embrace the activity which in skilled hands I've even seen carried out in marinas amongst the moorings as it's suitable for gusty shifty wind because of the high amount of created wind used in the application once pumped up onto the foils.


Edited by iGRF - 04 Nov 21 at 9:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 21 at 9:49am
My (inland) club allows wing foilers. We have a few.

Looks deadly dull compared to wind surfing. Foils at a crazy low speed, but not quick. Probably lots of fun in waves, but we don't have those.

Very portable, which is nice, but I'm not the slightest bit tempted.
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