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Tower trapezing

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Riv View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tower trapezing
    Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 9:08am
Looks fun, is it the way to go? Is it banned already?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcGowhQe7-c

I can see loads of advantages and a few minor problems, it would certainly add to the spectator value of the sport as sailors approach the skill level of gymnasts.

Think how sailing clothing design would change. Shoulder pads, climbing pegs on the side of the crews wetsuits, innovations galore.

Finally should you put the bigger sailor on top of the little one or vice-versa, or is it best to swap positions regularly and have two sailor of the same build.

Will pyhsios like it, looks like a good way to pick up back injuries.

I always wondered if IC sailors were allowed to trapeze of the end of the seat......
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 9:49am
Completely bonkers  LOL
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PeterG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 9:50am
I'd love to see that done in a shifty breeze  Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dohertpk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 1:44pm
It has been banned for years...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dohertpk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 1:45pm
https://49er.org/blog/tower-trapezing-outlawed/
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Riv View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 3:15pm
Have all appropriate classes banned it. Why ban it anyway; is it too difficult for olympic level sailors to do?
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 6:10pm
Add 20% righting moment to just about any boat and you'd really need to be throwing your rigs and foils away. Probably hulls too because of the extra loads.

Paul Bieker once said to me "Everyone said twin trapezes would be a really cheap way to go faster [on Int 14s], then we all got to chuck our hulls."

If you tried trapezing off the end of a standard IC sliding seat then it would immediately slide back into the middle. There has been at least one IC fitted with wide wings and a trapeze rather than the plank, but it doesn't seem to have been very satisfactory.


Edited by JimC - 08 Mar 20 at 6:18pm
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Neptune View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 20 at 6:28pm
For the life of me I canít work out how transverse toes straps work on an IC... i desperately want a go in one through they look amazing
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CT249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 20 at 11:17am
To add to what Jim says, back in the days when 18 Foot Skiffs had far fewer restrictions and there were no limits on rig size or wingspan, there was one "world" title in the bay off Brisbane, where winds are far steadier than in Sydney.  The top competitors realised that they could just add wing extensions and then extensions on the extensions so they could get more righting moment.  The problem was that this increased load on the foils, with one top boat (Chesty Bond) breaking two (IIRC) centreboards and losing the title to Rob Brown, who (according to Chesty's forward hand) had managed to clean the whole city out of carbon fibre to use it to reinforce his own foils and wings as he upped his wingspan to 30 ft.

I'm fairly sure there's still new footage of Chesty snapping two centreboards up on YT. Those who were there are definite that the loads were greatly increased and that the wider wings were unmanageable in normal shiftier conditions.

The comments by Bieker were matched by ones about Bieker, to the tune of "Paul said that adding wings to the rudders would just make the boats faster, then we got to chuck our hulls" because changing one design parameter tends to change the rest.


Edited by CT249 - 09 Mar 20 at 11:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 20 at 10:53am
Riv (as original poster)Ö..this was pretty much the 'meat' in my topic at the Dinghy Show, when I was discussing the development of the performance single hander.  The conclusion was a question - in boats such as the Musto Skiff, have single handers reached a final plateau of development. You can't add in any more sail, because there is not a lot more in the way of righting moment to be had. Way back in the day, Elvstrom did try a single hander that had a massively long plank, but very quickly binned the idea as 'unsailable'. There was talk a couple of years ago of a boat based on the B14 hull that would have wide racks... I don't think it went very far and I can't say if it used the trapeze as well, but the physics suggest against it, As you move further outboard from the centreline, the angle subtended between the trapeze wire and the mast increases, with being out on the wire becoming ever more difficult. Right back in the early days, the Coronet (which begat the 5o5) had a trapeze, but with the take off for the wires being at spreader height, which simply didn't work. In the famous Round the Island dinghy race, Coronet lost out big time to Osprey, which had the trapeze wires taken up to the hounds and John Westell, who was crewing on Coronet, had to watch at the ease with which Cliff Norbury on Osprey could trapeze and tack  as they slogged along the beat from St. Cats Point to Sandown. So back to that all important question - could you make an even more extreme single handed boat.... yes of course, but who would actually be able to sail such a boat? Why look at a boat that is only applicable to a small number of super elite sailors, when boats like the IC and MPS offer peak performance today as part of an established international circuit!

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