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Under 18's declarations for Club racing

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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 20 at 9:17pm
Should have said, feral children not a great idea, though! We run an under 16 policy, though you can't be responsible for under 16s until you are over 18.
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chrisarnell1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisarnell1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 20 at 9:26pm
Have always thought that sailing was the best way for kids to grow up. The "feral" ones tend to drop out very quickly when things get tough. They also seemed to be quite privileged and spoilt. I never missed them. Sailing tends to filter out the soft ones.
Elderly committees who have no regard for the intelligence and decision making skills of young people, however. Not so easy to get rid of.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 20 at 10:14pm
I refer you to my previous post :-

When I was in my early teens I would go out in F5 singlehanded in a Heron and just blast up and down in the bay. Sure my dad and other club members were keeping a weather eye and had I got into difficulties a boat would have been launched but statistically the worst that would likely happen would be that I got cold and even wetter and had to face the embarrassment of being rescued. I know there was a very small risk of something more serious but it was probably safer than crossing the road.......
I realise things are different now and we need to be more conscious of risk, especially when dealing with other peoples kids but we shouldn't take away the opportunity for them to have real independence, for a for an afternoon at least. Sailing is one of few sports where kids can have that.
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 20 at 10:36pm
Again loathe the idea that perfectly competent sensible young sailors might be restricted by the need for their parents to be present because of unrelated ‘feral’ kids.

As Rupert implies WE HAVE TO REMOVE THE BLOCKS TO NEW PARTICPANTS (principally children) IF THE SPORT IS TO SURVIVE.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 20 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by sargesail

need for their parents to be present because of unrelated ‘feral’ kids.

In these days I believe the major advantage of requiring parent or guardian to be present is that it takes away some of the requirements of child protection law and reduces the amount of bureaucracy your volunteers have to submit to. But don't take my word for it, because I am no expert in the subject.

Again, talk to the RYA. They have considerable expertise available to clubs on these topics.

It would terrify me if anyone's club is listening to what's being said here rather than talking to the RYA and getting current and accurate information. Remember the legislation changes frequently, you can no longer rely on what used to be correct even 5 years ago still being valid.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 20 at 11:05pm
That might be the advantage but the use cited was to deal with feral kids....a completely separate and unrelated thing.
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piglet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 9:14am
The OP asked what other clubs do, So,,,,,,,
at my south coast straight off the beach club we operate to RRS4.
The OOD/RO, same thing in our case, has a duty of care to those in his (unpaid) employ ie. RIB crews, if it's deemed dangerous for the RIB crews to launch then it's cancelled.
The OOD also has a duty of care to ensure there is sufficient rescue cover for the day, taking into account conditions, number of competitors and to some extent the quality of the competitors.
However the OOD is not asked to make judgements on competitors abilities and stop them from sailing. the competitors make their own decisions on suitability, or if U18 the parent/guardian/loco parentis on-site makes the decision, NOT the OOD.

Our problems arise when we have insufficient RIB crews for the day or the crews themselves may lack sufficient hours experience for the day, there are times we have sailed but perhaps shouldn't have because the safety umbrella wasn't really up to it.
One could also argue that a OOD ought to cancel just because of sailor quality if there are not enough RIBS for all of them! Thankfully it hasn't come to that.
We operate on a common sense approach where the OOD if in doubt consults with the competitors and his RIB crews.

My view is RRS4 serves to protect the OOD from having to make decisions on sailor suitability that the OOD would quite likely be unqualified to make and could then be exposed to risk of litigation.


Edited by piglet - 16 Jan 20 at 9:18am
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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 9:24am
I defer to superior knowledge about this. But are we really saying that having a quiet chat with some sailors clearly struggling to rig and launch, that waiting for a less windy day would be sensible, is not acceptable and would open you to possible litigation?
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chrisarnell1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisarnell1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 9:26am
Sarge, I started this thread because of decisions already made (thankfully reversed) by an over-eager and inexperienced Club officer.
We've been running Junior training for years and have some very good procedures for managing Junior training and racing. The Club's proposals suddenly put up a barrier for Juniors wishing to take part in Club racing and we reacted really badly to that. It's been a painful couple of months.
The RYA does offer guidance - which I've checked. But as is always the case - the advice is not specific and talks about managing risks, reasonable measures etc.  They will not tell you how to do something or what to put in place.
Interesting views here which suggests clubs have very different approaches to Junior participation and safety. I was asking for feedback on how different clubs tackle this. We've had some really good advice from contributors on this thread but not too many examples of what forms and declarations are being used at other clubs.
The discussion has been really interesting and a lot of fun though :)
Cheers
Chris

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Post Options Post Options   Quote A2Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 9:40am
Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

I defer to superior knowledge about this. But are we really saying that having a quiet chat with some sailors clearly struggling to rig and launch, that waiting for a less windy day would be sensible, is not acceptable and would open you to possible litigation?

No one is saying that. Advising someone they may be out of their depth is one thing, prohibiting them from sailing is another.

I do believe juniors should not be able to sail without a parent/guardian on site.
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