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tink View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 19 at 6:48pm
Tink
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http://proasail.blogspot.com
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DiscoBall View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 19 at 1:01am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

  I'd have thought an easier to sail platform like the Skeeter would make the boat more accessible to more 'normal' sailors?


I suspect that the 'accessible' dinghy foiler is a dead duck - windsurf foilers seem more likely to get a wider takeup (and there is possible inclusion of windfoiling in the 2024 Olympics).

Having owned a foil moth and despite never having windsurfed, if I suddenly had a desperate desire to go foiling again it would probably be more appealing to learn to windsurf and then foil from scratch. Rather that than pay X (3,4,5?) times more for a foiling dinghy that will be more complex, breakable, expensive to insure, etc.

The real elephant in the room with 'foilers are the future' is that almost any cheap, robust hiking dinghy is just as much of an adrenaline rush if you find big enough waves - and waves are free...  Wink After all there are 20kt Albacores out there  LOL Confused

 






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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 19 at 10:26am
I agree. As someone who struggled to keep low rider Moth upright and concentrated 100% in breeze in an Rs300, surely the appeal is to be a spectator whilst the superstars make it look easy?

The gap for a " mortal" in wind strength between not enough wind and too much makes each sailing hour v expensive

Surely making it accessible reduces the appeal?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 19 at 12:02pm
It's all about going fast so lets get a bit radical.You need the smallest foils possible to lower the drag. This implies a high take off speed,so my solution is either a ski jump type launch or big bungee to get up to speed quick. We can then dispense with all the starting business and have a Le Mans type start. As the wind machines will nt be able to start from the water by themselves it will sort out the good, the very good and the superhuman.
Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Alpha 220PR
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 19 at 1:34pm
Narrow Moths are easier to sail that wide Moths (Mag5 etc)

The foils underneath dampen things further. Controlling flight is the tricky bit, but is learned without too much difficulty.

Foiling is held back by COST and sailor *FITNESS (*Moths), not by sailing difficulty.

Edit:- kind of what Disco Ball was pointing at.


Edited by Jack Sparrow - 16 Oct 19 at 1:35pm
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 19 at 2:08pm
I can weigh in here with a bit of actual expertise crossing as it does into my commercial world, where most of the development now enjoyed by windsurfers (who are playing catch up)was carried out b the kite business where foiling had been growing quite quickly as those who would assign the sport to the Olympic bin have pursued higher speeds at both ends of the spectrum, (early take off, high top speed) as increasing sized foils in area with shallower chord have increasingly been in play chasing 30 knots + top end.

The difference obviously in the free sail world is the lack of necessity for manual or semi automatic aoa correction, riders do it with a literal nod of their head or slight movement of their body atititude, I'm not confident enough to try the sort of foils employed in the kite and windsurf world on my Farr just yet, but I'm going to eventually, which will be interesting to say the least.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 19 at 11:25pm
Originally posted by iGRF


The difference obviously in the free sail world is the lack of necessity for manual or semi automatic aoa correction, riders do it with a literal nod of their head or slight movement of their body atititude, I'm not confident enough to try the sort of foils employed in the kite and windsurf world on my Farr just yet, but I'm going to eventually, which will be interesting to say the least.


I guess the Farr is small enough, and if you were trapping fairly upright...but what would happen with the rudder?!?

There's some funny 'barking up the wrong tree' examples of trying to fit those sort of foils to racing kayaks, with the very over-optimistic idea that you could make the seat move fore and aft:
https://www.surfski.info/latest-news/story/1586/revo-foil-disrupting-the-surfski-world.html
Seems to have sunk without trace since this article.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote yottiemad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 19 at 7:56pm
You have to love igrf/woodbotherer. he is a catalyst on this forum. fast approaching 70yrs after a lifetime on boards, now a dinghy sailor. he has bought and sold a selection of boats, mostly new in the last 10yrs so good for all the classes he has visited. his current sea boat he has decided need foils and more speed on the reaches so a bowsprit sail is required. he has foiling knowledge as a vendor of foiling kite boards and their designers. He has been invloved in the the most lenghty tetchy (not from him) recent posting re lee bow effect which has resulted in a very good sailor and poster throwing his toys out and resigning from the forum plus others going to the same wall but not crossing it. (a shame as reading the whole thread they argued the same/similar things under different names) despite recent events he still thinks this is the place to post for advice for adding foils and a bowsprit to a boat/hull made of wood that he wishes was all carbon fibre with rudder gantrys foil control from the fixed bowsprit. as an aged person with 2 kids in there late twenties who grew up at HISC I appreacited the snowflake comments. Neither of my kids are currently at Hisc but the snowflake comment reads true to the family rows that has been generated from the attitude they learnt as kids.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 19 at 12:03pm
As a relatively recent returned to the forum I have enjoyed the experience.

I have seen the discussions about trying to revitalise the forum.

My following comment refers generally rather than just to more recent posts. But should personal arguments and posts verging on an attack be part of the forum?

It's a group of people talking about boats surely?
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 19 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

But should personal arguments and posts verging on an attack be part of the forum?

No

It's a group of people talking about boats surely?

Yes

Good post Ian  Thumbs Up
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