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Which single trapeze boat for light crew?

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cloudnine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cloudnine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Which single trapeze boat for light crew?
    Posted: 03 Sep 19 at 12:01pm
Mrs Cloudnine and me have been sailing for 2 years.. mainly club boats (stratos, bahia, feva when its been blowing, and more recently a Vago).  
We are both pretty keen and sailed all through the winter last year.
Ideally want a single trapeze, asymetric kite, something quite fast and fun.
We've done about 10 sails in a Vago and got on OK except when its been very gusty.
Time has come to buy our own boat.. but as we have a combined weight of about 115kg (me 65kg, her 50 ish kg) it slightly limits our options.

Basically I quite fancy a 3000 (Cheap as chips, reefable main if too windy?, furling gib, lightish boat).
Mrs cloudnine wants an RS 500 (more expensive,  non reefable main?)
She has been out in one with another sailor and quite liked it.
Neither of us would want a vago (quite heavy and a bit tippy)
Too old and inexperienced for a 29er.

For some reason several people have put her off the 3000 saying they are crap.

Anyone got any thoughts / suggestions of any other boats please


Edited by cloudnine - 03 Sep 19 at 12:17pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 19 at 12:06pm
The 3000 wasn't a bad boat by the standards of the late 70s, but to my mind the freeboard is a bit low, and most available boats are going to be pretty old and tired. You'll certainly be able to get a much better 500 much more easily.

Racing wise there's good international racing on the continent in the 500, and a moderate amount of class racing at events in the UK, but AFAIK there's nothing very significant for the 3000 anywhere any more.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 19 at 1:55pm
Low freeboard makes the 3000 fun!  We have a nationals coming up at Carsington SC on 28/29 September - pop along with your kit and someone will give you a go!

With respect, the RS500 was rushed out after the V3000 was launched, and they piled on the sail area to try to match the performance. A couple of 500s appeared in our club when they were new, but quickly disappeared.   By comparison, the 3000 is easy peasy; in fact, it's probably the easiest and most fun single-wire asymmetric for lightweights.  115 kg is bang on the money.

The worst aspect of the original Laser 3000 was its light airs performance, but the latest North sails have improved that. Inland, light airs PY returns must, however, have contributed to the ludicrous latest PY of 1085 - we won very regularly at club level on 1032 in our Laser 3000.  Take a look at the website linked below.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 19 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by JimC

The 3000 wasn't a bad boat by the standards of the late 70s,

This was a remark you've made before, Jim, based, presumably on the fact that the hull shape was taken from the Laser 2. The deck and rig of the 3k date, of course, from the late 90s, and the sails and foils were updated in 2006 - around the same time as the 500 appeared.

I can only imagine that you must refer to the 505 as OK back in the 50s, the Fireball in the 60s and the Nethercott canoe still seems OK for a boat from the 80s..[Edit 1971!].  It's not all about max speed in the planing conditions that the latest dinghy designs seem to be aimed at.


Edited by Medway Maniac - 03 Sep 19 at 2:25pm
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NickA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 19 at 2:49pm
The 3000s freeboard is indeed low.  You get wet.  Isn't that part of sailing?  The person on the trap stays nicely out of the spray of course!  The upside is it's pretty light for a 2 hander (VERY light in foam / epoxy V3000 guise) and small enough to single hand if it's not too windy (up to F5 for me).  I do note though that the modern 3000 sails DON'T reef; really, you never need to reef, just sheet out a bit .. and yes, you may hunt around to find a nice one with no soft bits in the hull that hasn't gained weight from water ingress.

Anyway, you are very welcome to come and have a go in my V3000 and probably someone's Laser 3000 at Carsington SC on Sept 28th and 29th (there should be a few 3000s there for the annual gathering).

29ers are nice boats, quite stable once they're planing and I kind of regret not buying one when the kids were younger - but too powerful and too wobbly to single hand and you spend a lot of time on your feet "doing balancing".

RS500, I've not tried, but they are quite heavy (traditional GRP construction like a laser 3000) and compensate with big sails.  Quite popular abroad but somehow didn't really take off in the UK.  It looks to me like a Vario with a jib on it - bit of an RS rush job.

Buzz?  Like a bigger 3000.  A lot more space inside, but again heavier and more sail area.

Vago ... no .. just ... DON'T.  Nasty nasty boats.

Does it have to be asymmetric?  Fireballs are loads of fun (also low free-board).

..... and Kudos for wanting a trapeze boat .. so many people seem to want to bob about in 2000s and the like, trapezing is just so much more fun....
3604 ...lapse of reason
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mike7722 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 19 at 4:03pm
I have never sailed either boat, so take this with a grain of salt, but the 3000 looks very fun for lightweights.
It seems like an improved asymmetric laser 2, and the laser 2 was a very fun boat.

Nothing to say about the 500 other than it looks a bit heavier, but I don't know, I've never sailed one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 19 at 4:51pm
I have sailed both of them. I don't like either as much as the 29er, but I can appreciate why the OP excludes that from consideration. I'd say I prefer the 500 for what ever that is worth.

The 3000 always struck me as a quick and dirty attempt to compete with the ISO/Buzz, ironic really as they didn't last either. TBH I very much doubt that the V3000 entered into RS calculations when developing the 500. It struck me as being intended as a less full on alternative to the 29er.

I dislike very low freeboard on intermediate level boats because its all too easy to get in the habit of sailing the boat slightly heeled instead of flat, which is a bad habit to get into when developing the skills for higher performance boats.

I suspect part of the story with the 500s apparent lack of popularity is the general collapse in adult two handed trapeze boats. I've just looked at the list to note with horror that there are (if I didn't make any errors) only five such left on the main PY list (the 500 being 4th ahead of the 505 [boggle]) while the 3000 dropped off a couple of years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 19 at 5:32pm
3000 is a nice boat for lightweights, fun to sail, forgiving and reasonably light. A couple of guys I know have a 500 but the (largish) crew reckons it's very tippy. 

If you sail inland on handicap, unless on a very large lake, a trapeze is a liability (especially with a light crew). Buy an RS200!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mike7722 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 19 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Buy an RS200!


I agree there, they are amazing boats. They go well in a range of conditions, and the kite is very easy to handle.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 19 at 5:39pm
The low freeboard of the Laser 2 and 3000 and their light weight make these boats some of the nippiest boats around. Imagine a go-cart on the water, masses of fun with crews very close to the water. Particularly exciting in a breeze with 3 sails up and the crew on the wire skimming the wave tops.  Cheap, bullet proof, low maintenance, easy to drag around on the beach/boatpark. Very efficient bailer that gets rid of the water that inevitably gets into the cockpit. It's a big wind boat.

Down side: poor performance/uncomfortable for the crew in light wind and of course no class events for laser 2. Laser 2 also doesn't have the best cunnigham, outhauls and kicker controls but as the class rules no longer apply the controls can be modified (notify sailing sec if handicap racing) with extra purchases/string. 

Edited by Sussex Lad - 03 Sep 19 at 5:54pm
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