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Rudder types

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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rudder types
    Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 10:14am
Hi Folks,
   
Looking at different types of rudder. Fixed and cassette as opposed to the standard pivoting rudder /stock arrangement. I've only ever used the later.

  What's the advantage/pros/cons of the differing types?
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Gordon 1430 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gordon 1430 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 10:22am
Hi Sussex Lad
Fixed rudder if launching and recovery is not an issue the most  positive steering and also less to go wrong. Most people prefer the cassette type to the pivoting but I found it still an issue launching and recovering at my club (often a Lee shore). 
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 10:55am
Ta Gordon.
I get that a fixed rudder eliminates the possible sloppy fit of the stock but does it make a lot of difference if you already have a well adjusted stock?

Would normally be quite happy rudderless sailing but as you suggest the last bit coming into a slightly dumpy beach is gonna go wrong sooner or later if rudderless surely.

Are cassettes less sloppy than conventional pivot?
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rich96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 11:13am
What boat is this for ?

Modern lifting rudders can be very good

Usually a little more play and weight than fixed.

Cassette something between the 2 ?

Fixed more susceptible to damage. Cassette rudders will also get damaged when running aground

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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 11:34am
Possibly but not definitely getting a lark. It seems the decent ones quite often come with fixed or cassette.......just wondering if can live with that. I don't really want to fork out for a decent pivot type as well.
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mozzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 12:07pm
I'm not a fan of pivoting rudders (or centreboards) generally, but they are good if you hit the bottom accidentally. I take quite a few risks in the 200 in light winds and it covers you for when you think you might, but hope you won't touch the bottom just by uncleating.  Then in more wind usually the mechanism holding them down fails before the hull / foil. I still wouldn't be sailing at a bank at much speed though!

However, I feel pivoting rudders make launching much much harder than cassette rudders. The 29er and 49er was so much easier to get in with as you could pull both foils up to about 2 ft and still have good balanced control of the boat. Whereas the on the 800 the pivoting rudder is worse than useless if it's any appreciable  amount up. It's just so unbalanced and heavy you can't steer with it, but it does enough to stop you steering 'rudderless'.  

So I don't get people saying pivoting foils are better for coming ashore. I mean, if you're heading for the beach you know it's going to be shallow, so just lift your centreboard and rudder in the cassette? 

I don't think completely fixed rudders are about slop. Most of the slop is between pintal and gudgeon and is the same whatever the system of lifting. But I just think it's lighter as a fixed one piece. No ideal for lee shores in swell, but in a crewed boat most can make it work, especially if the rudder is not too long.  


Edited by mozzy - 14 Aug 19 at 12:56pm
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 12:48pm
I have a cassette rudder on the D-Zero, I love it. When the dreaded weed comes up the boat will happily sail on half rudder without any additional load that you get when you pivot a swinging rudder backwards.

Running aground could be an issue but not worse than with a fixed blade.

If I sailed at a sea club or there was a real risk of grounding (tidal estuary etc..) then i would want a pivoting rudder with a breakaway cleat.
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 1:13pm
Helpful posts all.

Yes the load on the pivoting rudder is a pain when it's up but incorporating some rudderless technique as well helps. Heel is not helpful.


....on my existing boats with pivot I have a doubled up piece of  10 or 12 mm bungee in the downhaul rope. Holds it down firmly but does come up if I hit anything.

What holds the blade up on the cassette type? Would not be good if it slips down at crucial moment.


Edited by Sussex Lad - 14 Aug 19 at 1:19pm
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mozzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 1:45pm
Friction for the most part. Once you get to the taper you can tilt it in the stock which locks it in place as the trailing edge is forced back in to the V of the case.  


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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 1:59pm
If a pivoting rudder comes up a bit on a seriously quick boat if you are lucky you will only rip the rudder fittings out of the boat. If you are unlucky it could be much worse. That's why dagger rudders.
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