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Are there any Europe Sailors here......

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Bootscooter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 19 at 10:07am
Originally posted by By The Lee

Tom Slingsby, Nicholas Heiner are both laser world champions and have raced the finn


Slight, but significant point of order.....they WERE both Laser World Champs, but now sail the Finn. As Gareth points out, they have only transitioned in one direction.

And I love his point about Oppies 🤣🤣🤣
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Post Options Post Options   Quote By The Lee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 19 at 11:29am
Originally posted by Bootscooter

Originally posted by By The Lee

Tom Slingsby, Nicholas Heiner are both laser world champions and have raced the finn


Slight, but significant point of order.....they WERE both Laser World Champs, but now sail the Finn. As Gareth points out, they have only transitioned in one direction.

And I love his point about Oppies 🤣🤣🤣

That comparison is not valid. Slingsby was 27 when he won gold and Nicholas Heiner was 25 when he was world champion. Most people stop growing age 20 where as an oppi sailor is growing rapidly so I think that is a bit of cheap point and a silly comparison. OBVIOUSLY I don't think every finn sailor could sail a laser but quite a few could given a reasonable length of time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 19 at 11:51am
Originally posted by sargesail

Seems to me that the dinghy world is divided into 2: the lightweights who think they are disadvantaged by it and donít recognise that you can hike hard when itís breezey but it wouldnít be quick to amputate when itís light. And those who know the truth.

I thought it was divided between the heavyweights who think they are always disadvantaged by it and don't recognise that they have more righting moment in a breeze, and those who know the truth. Big smile   It is simply impossible to exert more leverage than a heavier person of equal skill, height and fitness, therefore heavy sailors often have the advantage. Secondly, righting moment is pretty much directly equivalent to weight and height, whereas drag is equivalent to the sum of boat weight and sailor weight.  Righting moment therefore probably normally increases faster than drag does with extra body weight.

I can remember at a Laser state titles presentation I happened to sit at a table with people I hadn't met. They told me that at 85-88kg they had all been too heavy to succeed, hence their mediocre results.  After the presentation had finished, I asked the winner Brett Bayer what he weighed. His answer - 88kg. 

As a short light/medium weight who sails a lot of classes, I sometimes sail heavy, sometimes medium, and sometimes light. I think I'm therefore not really biased, but I do feel that heavyweights complain without justification more than lightweights.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 19 at 12:12pm
This data is interesting. It is an analysis of IOC data of 11,538 athletes from the Rio games. The average male was 1.82m and the average woman 1.7m.  The average man was 80kg and the average woman 62.6. Sailors were on average taller (only 9 of 28 sports had taller participants) and average in weight. The average sailing man was 77.1kg and the average sailing woman 63.2kg

So one can perhaps say that there is no great bias against heavy sailors, as shown by the fact that sailors are average in weight amongst Olympians.  However, there is clearly a bias towards taller sailors. The men are better served, in terms of average weight, by the Laser than women are by the Radial but the female sailors are not particularly heavy despite the fact that most of them sail other classes. 

Those who imply that heavier sailors are "more athletic" would appear to be incorrect, for the lighter athletes come from generally fearfully strenuous sports like triathlon, pentathlon, athletics, cycling and equestrian which also had low BMI. Claiming that greater weight = greater athletism is therefore saying that light triathletes, athletes and cyclists are of inferior athletism. The heavier athletes are mainly in ball sports where height counts or combat sports. The higher BMI athletes tend to be from combat sports, shooting and archery. 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 19 at 12:25pm
They are probably fractious due to hunger pangs
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 19 at 12:25pm
That 77.1kg includes the pie eaters in the Finn fleet. What will it be without them?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 19 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by CT249

Originally posted by sargesail

Seems to me that the dinghy world is divided into 2: the lightweights who think they are disadvantaged by it and donít recognise that you can hike hard when itís breezey but it wouldnít be quick to amputate when itís light. And those who know the truth.

I thought it was divided between the heavyweights who think they are always disadvantaged by it and don't recognise that they have more righting moment in a breeze, and those who know the truth. Big smile   It is simply impossible to exert more leverage than a heavier person of equal skill, height and fitness, therefore heavy sailors often have the advantage. Secondly, righting moment is pretty much directly equivalent to weight and height, whereas drag is equivalent to the sum of boat weight and sailor weight.  Righting moment therefore probably normally increases faster than drag does with extra body weight.

I can remember at a Laser state titles presentation I happened to sit at a table with people I hadn't met. They told me that at 85-88kg they had all been too heavy to succeed, hence their mediocre results.  After the presentation had finished, I asked the winner Brett Bayer what he weighed. His answer - 88kg. 

As a short light/medium weight who sails a lot of classes, I sometimes sail heavy, sometimes medium, and sometimes light. I think I'm therefore not really biased, but I do feel that heavyweights complain without justification more than lightweights.





I wouldn't pay too much attention to that data without knowing how it was collected.  Was it self reported or measured?  I recall seeing the published sailor weights for London 2012 and being mildly amused by how fictitious they were!
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NickM99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 19 at 8:41pm
Coming back to the OP. looking at the forecast for this weekend in Weymouth, 75kg+ looks ideal!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 19 at 9:19pm
Surely there are 3 sets of whingers in sailing? The lightweights, who think the heavyweights will win in anything above force 1, the heavyweights, who think the lightweights will win in anything below force 5, and the middleweights who think they will always be beaten by lightweights or heavyweights, whatever the weather.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 19 at 11:24pm
Originally posted by NickM99

Coming back to the OP. looking at the forecast for this weekend in Weymouth, 75kg+ looks ideal!


Thanks for pulling it back on track Nick, and youíre right - my weight will be good to have, but I doubt itíll be sufficient to trouble the levels of talent on show with ex Olympians and practiced Europe Ninjas from both here and abroad!

Latest entry numbers give us 30 boats!!!!! For context, thatíll make this year the largest UK Nationals, certainly since 1998 (which is as far as the Y&Y graph goes back), and possibly ever, going by statements from those that were around in the 90ís (apart from 1999 when there were 150 entries, which was presumably an Olympic Qualifier).

Absolutely fantastic work by the Class Assc to achieve this😎
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