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Star Sailors League December 2018

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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 18 at 11:54am
Originally posted by Chris 249

On the other hand, a recent article in Sail-World NZ analysed the weight of Olympic and America's Cup competitors and showed that the AC is at least as unfair to light and medium-weight men as the Olympics without the Finn will be to the heavyweights. A bunch of other high-profile classes are also dominated by heavy sailors.
So if fairness and equity are the important issues, how can the heavyweight sailors complain about bias against them in the Games and yet be happy when there is bias towards them in other top line events? And, as noted before, the Finn class seems to have been quite happy to ignore the issue of equity towards light sailors for the 40 or so years when the Olympic dinghies favoured bigger blokes.
In the same vein, it seems a bit hard to complain about young Finnsters losing out on their Olympic dream when the Finn was apparently happy to sit by and watch Star, Yngling, Soling and windsurfer sailors lose their Olympic hopes. Of course, you can say the same thing about cat sailors - they complained long and loud about losing their spot in the Games but didn't seem to care when other disciplines got chucked.


What was the basis of the analysis? The characteristics of the sailors or the characteristics of the ac boats? Because it’s just possible that the ‘type’ was partially defined by the fact that many of the most successful sailors involved came out of Finns and, for the older ones Stars. Certainly cycling as a hydraulic power input ought to have changed the physiology.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 18 at 12:26pm
Star sailors league last year very good, video coverage probably best I have ever seen.
Extensive chat on youtube, not many negative comments.
I will watch it agzin this year, looking forward to it, almost up there with 6 Nations for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 18 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Originally posted by Chris 249

On the other hand, a recent article in Sail-World NZ analysed the weight of Olympic and America's Cup competitors and showed that the AC is at least as unfair to light and medium-weight men as the Olympics without the Finn will be to the heavyweights. A bunch of other high-profile classes are also dominated by heavy sailors.
So if fairness and equity are the important issues, how can the heavyweight sailors complain about bias against them in the Games and yet be happy when there is bias towards them in other top line events? And, as noted before, the Finn class seems to have been quite happy to ignore the issue of equity towards light sailors for the 40 or so years when the Olympic dinghies favoured bigger blokes.
In the same vein, it seems a bit hard to complain about young Finnsters losing out on their Olympic dream when the Finn was apparently happy to sit by and watch Star, Yngling, Soling and windsurfer sailors lose their Olympic hopes. Of course, you can say the same thing about cat sailors - they complained long and loud about losing their spot in the Games but didn't seem to care when other disciplines got chucked.


What was the basis of the analysis? The characteristics of the sailors or the characteristics of the ac boats? Because it’s just possible that the ‘type’ was partially defined by the fact that many of the most successful sailors involved came out of Finns and, for the older ones Stars. Certainly cycling as a hydraulic power input ought to have changed the physiology.


Strangely lots of the AC sailors in Bermuda were shedding weight and even the big'uns looked lean - They were desperate to get foiling faster than the rivals.

Certainly some of the grinders/cyclors were meaty but not vast.

Chris & Jim C are entitled to their opinion o course but NOT one serious sailor that I have spoken to has said that dumping the Finn is a good idea.

The offshore debacle will either never happen or be dumped after 2014. In all reality which serious sailor is going to risk many years of hard work on the off chance that they are successful in some mickey mouse 'offshore' one off race ?

Anyway - the Stars are still looking good and good luck to them.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 18 at 12:45pm
I really like the finn sailing. And I'd like a spot for larger blokes in the games, it's a great spectacle. Ideally, I'd rather windsurfing or kites weren't there. 
What I didn't like was the Finn lobby (wasn't just them) signing up for a event that doesn't exist in the sport and ultimately the athletes commission judged unworkable. It was a display of how ridiculous the whole process and those involved had become. 

Fair play to the Stars, and in particular the backer of this event. If you believe the game you're playing is worthwhile, you won't stop because it's not in the games. Ultimately, as consumers if we think these are the boats that are important, we should continue to watch and follow events like the SSL and be thankful a wealthy backer has plugged the gap to allow us to continue to support the sailing we enjoy watching. 

Buy enough of the stuff their sponsors sell and these boats will stay alive as pro events. Who knows, in a few years once the fashions has changed perhaps there will be a route back in to the games, if by that point it's even desirable for the class. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 18 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by rich96

NOT one serious sailor that I have spoken to has said that dumping the Finn is a good idea.
I haven't spoken to anyone that wanted the Finn dropped either. But I've also not spoken to one sailor who thought the mixed single hander was a good idea either.

Originally posted by rich96

The offshore debacle will either never happen or be dumped after 2014. In all reality which serious sailor is going to risk many years of hard work on the off chance that they are successful in some mickey mouse 'offshore' one off race ?
The thing is, unlike some of the other events introduced, or that have been attempted to be introduced, offshore sailing already has serious pro-sailors working hard at it. It's not some invented thing that nation bodies will have to go out and press gang people to take up. It's an existing and quite huge part of the sport with athletes that never before have been able to show their qualities on this stage (logistical event issues aside).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 18 at 1:38pm
The money isn't just going on the SSL event itself - apparently Star class training centres are being bankrolled specifically to get invitees from other classes up to speed.

The 'we're the best classes - look at all our famous names' is a bit circular. For a post-olympics sailing career the only route is really AC/Volvo/big boat racing, and  manhandling big bits of machinery around a course preselects for very big blokes (probably doesn't hurt to be part of an old boys network either).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 18 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by mozzy


Originally posted by rich96

NOT one serious sailor that I have spoken to has said that dumping the Finn is a good idea.
I haven't spoken to anyone that wanted the Finn dropped either. But I've also not spoken to one sailor who thought the mixed single hander was a good idea either.
Originally posted by rich96

The offshore debacle will either never happen or be dumped after 2014. In all reality which serious sailor is going to risk many years of hard work on the off chance that they are successful in some mickey mouse 'offshore' one off race ?

The thing is, unlike some of the other events introduced, or that have been attempted to be introduced, offshore sailing already has serious pro-sailors working hard at it. It's not some invented thing that nation bodies will have to go out and press gang people to take up. It's an existing and quite huge part of the sport with athletes that never before have been able to show their qualities on this stage (logistical event issues aside).


Yes - in a sensible series etc - not a one off race !.

'Offshore' sailing is way too unpredictable for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 18 at 4:06pm
Most of the really high profile offshore racing is one off races, Fastnet, Round the Island, Vendee Globe etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 18 at 4:43pm
In fact, the only high profile offshore racing that has multiple legs individually scored to even out large time differences is the Volvo?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 18 at 5:17pm
Comparing the Fastnet or the Round The Island racew with Olympics is not fair at all

Most off those competitors are weekend sailors and handicap events .Nothing like an Olympics.

Also - comparing the Vendee with the Olympics is also ridiculous - multi multi millions of £s and an event sailed over a few months ?

Come on

A far better comparison would be the Figaro - is this a one race event ?

Nothing more to say on this - time will tell what a success it is

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