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Heavyweight boat choice.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fatboi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 18 at 12:15pm
I don't know the science, but considering in a Finn, OK, Solo, D-One, Optimist, Topper, Laser and Phantom you sit behind the front edge of the board I am not sure that is correct. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 18 at 12:43pm
iGRF,
Think it's because it's cat rigged, look how far forward mast is, think where centre of effort is.

Edited by 423zero - 16 Nov 18 at 12:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 18 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by Fatboi

I don't know the science, but considering in a Finn, OK, Solo, D-One, Optimist, Topper, Laser and Phantom you sit behind the front edge of the board I am not sure that is correct. 


I've sailed 4 of those and it's easily possible to get your weight just ahead of the CofR The Finn and Oppi I've no idea, but I know this you wouldn't get far on a board if you tried to get upwind standing that far back, so there is obviously a lot of rudder compensation going on for an un natural sailing position in the OK, I must get a go in one, the aero if I recall suffers a little bit from the bulkhead being too close to where you need to be not helping you dial into a feelgood groove, unlike the D-Zero where you can slide exactly into place with ease.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fatboi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 18 at 1:27pm
Must have something to do with how far forward the rig is and where the CofE loads, but as I say, I don't know the science. 
Could do with a lesson from Dan H or someone else that knows the science.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 18 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Fatboi

Must have something to do with how far forward the rig is and where the CofE loads, but as I say, I don't know the science. 
Could do with a lesson from Dan H or someone else that knows the science.


Don''t need Dan H who was a child wondering what to do with dangly parts of his anatomy when we learned sailing 101 that the Cof E (Centre of Effort) needs to be slightly ahead of the C of R, (Centre of Lateral resistance) then we didn't have rudders so i guess we take it for granted, if it's not the craft won't go, but what we're all doing is racing them so we use our body weight to fine tune that balance which is why you'll note the top half of the body on better sailors is ahead of the bottom half if I'm not telling you how to suck eggs here, I always assume everyone knows better than I, how to make these things go. Took me a while to spot that good technique is the same as racing boards, but it still doesn't explain how you make OK's go fast upwind if you can't actually get the top half of your body ahead of the Cof R unless of course that Cof R is actually behind the Centreboard on an OK which I doubt.
There's no question they go, I just wonder how and why.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dangerousday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 18 at 4:00pm
Looks nice but involves.wood.
It will have to live in the dinghy park year round. I don't have anywhere to store it, or do any wood type maintenance. I've moved since I last had a wood boat (N12) and had both time and resources for it.

I do like a nicely finished wood boat. But like an elephant, nice to look at, but don't want to own one. Not a good investment either as after a few seasons of my ownership it would only be fit for November 5th. 

Though there is an old (as in slightly younger than me) composite Finn on apolloduck...Been cared for enough for 50 years to still look good and be useable. I'd feel quite bad if it ended up on a bonfire because of me after all that time. Wouldn't extend that to a Laser though.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fatboi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 18 at 10:17am
[/QUOTE]
Don''t need Dan H who was a child wondering what to do with dangly parts of his anatomy when we learned sailing 101 that the Cof E (Centre of Effort) needs to be slightly ahead of the C of R, (Centre of Lateral resistance) then we didn't have rudders so i guess we take it for granted, if it's not the craft won't go, but what we're all doing is racing them so we use our body weight to fine tune that balance which is why you'll note the top half of the body on better sailors is ahead of the bottom half if I'm not telling you how to suck eggs here, I always assume everyone knows better than I, how to make these things go. Took me a while to spot that good technique is the same as racing boards, but it still doesn't explain how you make OK's go fast upwind if you can't actually get the top half of your body ahead of the Cof R unless of course that Cof R is actually behind the Centreboard on an OK which I doubt.
There's no question they go, I just wonder how and why.[/QUOTE]


Does the rudder not significantly alter this though? It will not just be resisting from the centerboard.

I must admit I have never seen 'the top half of the body on better sailors is ahead of the bottom half'
In my whole life I have never been told this...I am not sure that this is correct. Especially if you add any waves sailing upwind, then the body will be generally angled back and the upper half will be moving to keep the moving through the water. 

In flat water, sure, get your weight forward, but that is usually because you are getting the stern out of the water, especially if the aft is a big, flat area designed for planing downwind. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 18 at 10:36am
On a board the trim affects the CoR much more than in a boat and on the boat the CoE is more or less fixed (upwind anyway) cos the mast doesn't move. Steering is more affected by heel than fore and aft trim (it's a combination of moving the CoE to the side and the effect of the asymmetric hull form).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dangerousday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 18 at 10:12am
Originally posted by turnturtle

My advice is to try and find an older Finn.... they are truly wonderful boats if you’re carrying a bit of weight.   You’ve got your windsurf kit for planing winds, so might as well find a boat which excels in displacement mode.... and Finns do that beautifully.  

The H2 looks like an option, but I’d demo first.... I’ve heard they’re a bit marmite.
Theres a Finn for sale on apolloduck / ebay (though quite s differential in price between the two). Budget has changed since a tax bill is imminent.

It would think, but I'm stuck abroad until Xmas, and apart from it being a 12 hour / 700 mile round trip theres no towbar on the car, or road trailer with the boat. Could maybe borrow a trailer though.
Anything worth looking at seems to be appearing at the furthest point away possible.

Sorry GRF, the Finn does sound tempting.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 18 at 3:57pm
Just re-scanned this thread having partaken in the other one. You seem to have decided the 300 is not for you, good decision IMHO :-

A quote from your first post "So I'm leaning towards an RS300  I'm probably too heavy for it to be competitive, but can't travelling to events anyway. looks to be a simple enough rig, and I suspect it will be quick and fun where I sail. Hull looks same general shape as MX-Ray. " 

I would say the 300 is much (much) narrower on the WL than an MX Ray, that's why there are so many pics of sailors inspecting the centreboard  Tongue


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 26 Nov 18 at 3:58pm
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