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Double points race tie brake

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 18 at 7:39pm
Well explained Mozzy you are right of course.  Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 18 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by mozzy

So the next question is if you've determined that a race is twice as important in overall score, do you also want that reflected in the tiebreak?

But to do that either you'd have to have the pursuit race as the primary tiebreak, or else need to halve the pursuit points when calculating the tie break, after doubling them to calculate the points total, at which point you'd have to clear up the mess after various people's heads exploded...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 18 at 8:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 18 at 8:10pm
Or when you double the pursuit race score you enter it as two firsts. Just copy over the first race in sailwave and make both non-discardable.

It's all semantics, I don't like the medal race idea as once you say one race is more important than an other you then have to quantify by how much and that's impossible to do.

Obviously this was a fun end of season bash, aimed to get all the fleets together, not have too much waiting around on the water etc etc. The fir.at of the pursuit then fleet racing was perfect. Taking fleet scores out of the pursuit is the only fair thing. Then, I guess it makes some sense to inflate the significance of the pursuit as its longer and otherwise people would do just one day... how you do that is judgement call. Maybe having it twice as important in total score but same as other races in a tie was a good compromise.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 18 at 10:26pm
Sounds to me as if it worked fine. I would maybe make the pursuit score as two results but, with a single discard, only one of them would be discardable (and, obviously both would count for the same points).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 18 at 10:50pm
The pursuit wasn't discardable.

Yeah, I think it was fine, and it seems the 200 results have been corrected now.

I think possibly it wasn't thought through in this much detail and no one queried it at the brief. Been running a few years with no ties then they get three or four in one weekend!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 18 at 11:13pm
Yup, the nightmare scenario for a race committee.......

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 18 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by mozzy

I think possibly it wasn't thought through in this much detail

Dunno, after reading the SI carefully and thinking it through some more I think it was carefully worded. They've managed to give all the races the same weight in the tiebreak without having to resort to writing their own tie break rule. It would have been very easy to end up with the pursuit being disfavoured in the tie break.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 18 at 10:51am
Meh, you're very kind, I think they could be more explicit and I don't think it would be hard to write a rule which doesn't disfavour the pursuit. 

But... Like I said before, any scoring where you are weighting different types of races races is always going to be arbitrary and doesn't work well with the count-back. The pursuit could justifiably have been multiplied by 1.5 or 3 giving different winners, or just been non-discard. It's an end of season celebratory event and I think the organisers were looking for a hook to bring the classes together, rather than devise a scoring scheme equating value of a 2 hour race versus a 40 minute race! At the end of the day, on the water, it felt like we were beat. And most importantly the organises got 100+ boat together in November and engaged across fleets. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 18 at 11:30am
At the end of the day, on the water, it felt like we were beat...

This, to me, sounds like the answer in this case. If when you finished, you felt that someone had deservedly pipped you on the system you thought made most sense, ending up winning would feel wrong, whoever got the choccies. Sounds like the other result went against that expectation.
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