A new class of dinghy?

Originally posted by Gfinch Originally posted by mozzy The problem is, modern materials enable us to go lighter and faster. But, lighter and faster are not good properties for a peoples boat to be sailed at a range of venues. As a result it's very hard to improve over older designs.  So at Salcombe GIN SYC Regatta an almost 20 year old N12 based on a 1987 design (Final Chapter) was giving the DCB (sailed by the current National Champions) a run for its money. It did similar at the RHYC Open. Ok so it has a T Foil rudder but still could win at the Nationals. That is good value for money.....no need to form a new dinghy class!

Originally posted by Turkey Pie Any boat that the crew needs to stand on foredeck in light wind is flawed in versatility in my opinion. I'm not going to claim to understand the exact science of the problem but assume its inherent with the skiff qualities which make it great to sail in a breeze.

Originally posted by mozzy Originally posted by Turkey Pie Any boat that the crew needs to stand on foredeck in light wind is flawed in versatility in my opinion. I'm not going to claim to understand the exact science of the problem but assume its inherent with the skiff qualities which make it great to sail in a breeze. Skiffs are going to be slow compared to other boats in light winds, but that doesn't matter for racing other 800s.  It would be frustrating on shifty, restricted waters, in light winds though. Bit harsh to call that a flaw however, when it's clearly not the MO of the design. Swords aren't flawed cutting instruments because they're cumbersome at the dinner table.  But I get your point, you'd like a twin trapeze because hiking is painful, but you want something that isn't sticky in the light winds.  Originally posted by Turkey Pie The 800 with larger kite / narrower wings would still suffer from same problem Exactly my point, if you want an 800 which carries more weight and goes better in light winds, then it's the hull shape that you need to change, not the rig size to righting moment ratio.  A national 18, but with two on the wire, rather than two hiking and one trapeze?  Twin trapeze tempest?

Turkey Pie, buy a 505 and helm from the wire 

My 3p worth.

Target space: fast-draining double-hander for couples, parent+child, two people, carrying capacity to ~24-25 stone.

A ~14ft, hiking, ~6ft wide boat with double floor but decent leg room (high freeboard), twin-pole system with symetric kite out of bow-chute. dagger* & kick-up rudder. Furling jib. Carbon sticks. Semi battened main with two sizes.

One high aspect, larger area for folks who sail inland and will likely spend more time white-sailing and needing reach 'above' trees. One same head height but shorter foot length, so less overall area, for folks sailing on the briny/open water who would be over-powered with the bigger main.

Should mean one mast, one boom but two sails with different properties to the overall package. Keeping boom at same height enables the twin-pole kite system to be kept relatively simple.

I would prefer such a boat to have an overall lower cost & complexity drive, so staymaster type shroud adjustment versus full adjustable, 'pin and rack' jib cars etc. Off-boom main sheet to free up cockpit space and remove need for traveller/hoop.

*Dagger board is cheaper to build, easier to fix and replace and is well proven on even the shingliest beaches ala Aero, Laser etc.

A boat lighter than a 2000 on land as well as water, but with similar carrying characteristics and ease of use. Symetric kite because they are better suited to a wider range of waters and uses. Two sail sizes to accomodate different use cases. Open sailmakers would encourage more parties to be interested and promoting.