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A new class of dinghy?

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Oinks View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oinks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 18 at 12:36pm
The Venom (Icon derivative) caused a bit of a stir on here a few months back but still no sign of anything on the Rondar website or news of it anywhere else. Why might that be?

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Riv View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 18 at 10:29pm
Totally agree with this from Mozzy:

1) What will this be like for my social life? Will I be able to meet lots of fun people regularly?
2) How accessible is fair racing (physically, financially and geographically)?
3) What are the broad skills being tested, do I excel or want to learn them?
4a) What is the prestige of winning / doing well (for the competitive)?
4b) Whats the 'rush / thrill' of sailing it (for the less competitive)?
5) How good is the boat design specifics?

I believe that the social aspects are the primary reasons for buying one type or the other. You can whizz around by yourself but it gets boring and lonely. 

So maybe we should innovate the social structures and the rest will follow. The Open Bic seems to be having a go at this.

I'd also like to add one more thing to Mozzy's list  and that is aesthetics. Yes beauty and the eye of the beholder stuff. However there are styles in dinghy design just as in car design. At the moment we have a lot of the Skiff aesthetic, flat, straight,  bows all raked at the Bethwaite angle.
Though I love the concept of the Devoti D One it is so ugly that I would never buy one as I could never love it, it would just be a tool to play the game of no more significance than a tennis racquet.

Suprisingly the Laser is a pretty hull, with lovely lines and a bit of sheer. I still like to look at it. My favourite dinghy to look at was my first Finn, it had  a lovely transom and beautiful lines.

So number 6 on the list would be: Is it lovable? Can I have an emotional relationship with this bit of sporting gear? 

God, I hate grey boats. If I wanted battleship grey I'd get a can of paint but having to buy one? No way! Where has all the colour gone?
Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 18 at 11:20pm
I think Riv makes a good point. I would suggest it basically comes down to people will pay good money to own nice things that they can take pride in, whether it's a car, bike, boat or house.
A functional lump of plastic that wins races doesn't have the same appeal.
It's nice to have a boat that's unique or at least differs from everyone else's by more than just the sail number.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 18 at 8:48am
I agree I race primarily because I enjoy sailing my chosen boat which to my eyes is a "nice thing" and the people I sail with. I would have little to no interest in racing for it's own sake in a boat I felt no connection with. 
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 18 at 8:53am
I reckon Mozzy got it pretty damn close.

I'm a sentimental fool, but I get very attached to some of my SMODs. And if you look at the way people get attached to their cars and bicycles, it would seem that many people can actually get very emotional about something that pops off a production line.



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The history and design of the racing dinghy.
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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 18 at 9:08am
Originally posted by zippyRN

Originally posted by getafix

My 3p worth.

Target space: fast-draining double-hander for couples, parent+child, two people, carrying capacity to ~24-25 stone.

A ~14ft, hiking, ~6ft wide boat with double floor but decent leg room (high freeboard), twin-pole system with symetric kite out of bow-chute. dagger* & kick-up rudder. Furling jib. Carbon sticks. Semi battened main with two sizes.

......Symetric kite because they are better suited to a wider range of waters and uses. Two sail sizes to accomodate different use cases. Open sailmakers would encourage more parties to be interested and promoting.
 

sounds  rather  Merlin Rocket  / RS400 ish 

Er, well yes, they are two handed hiking dinghies around 14ft in length, so are Scorpions and many other existing classes; MRX, Kestrel....

I was imagining something more akin to a double handed Aero than a clinker hulled string fest or asymmetric kite boat.  Thereís nowt wrong with MR, 400ís or Scorpions IMO, but the OP was to create a new class and I think there is a need for a low maintenance, easy to access, flexible two handed boat which is lighter on land and water than a 2000 (pull one across a shingle beach with your wife or under 15 as crew).

I acknowledge that weight reduction and modern materials can equate to faster speed and maybe handicap bother, as JimC posted.  However, I donít see the logic of designing a slow boat or dumbing down the materials, as others have posted, the point is to end up with a boat people look forward to sailing.



Edited by getafix - 01 Sep 18 at 9:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 18 at 9:12am
Sounds like the icon without the silly jib stick and maybe a small but useable screecher style asymmetric that is cut to goose wing in light stuff... and a couple of extra water line length feet for upwind glide

Edited by turnturtle - 01 Sep 18 at 9:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 18 at 9:20am
Originally posted by getafix

I acknowledge that weight reduction and modern materials can equate to faster speed and maybe handicap bother, as JimC posted. ... a boat people look forward to sailing.

I said nothing about handicaps.

My point was that once you get beyond a certain level of performance it seems you end up with a boat that many people don't look forward to sailing. My guess is its because it will get you into trouble faster than you can get out of it unless you are a really expert level sailor.

The big change in popular classes since I was young is the loss of the edges. By and large people no longer sail neither the fast boats or the slow boats, it's all concentrated in the middle range.

I remember predicting, when the 29er came out, that we were going to be heading for a golden age for the high performance classes. With all those youngsters with high quality training in the high performance skills classes like us (as I was then) in the Cherubs, the 14s, all the rest would see a major upsurge in popularity because we wouldn't have people buying a boat, scaring themselves s*****ss, realising they don't want to play the game and getting out again.

Boy, was I ever wrong. The popularity of the high performance boats has plummeted since then. Its almost as if those youngsters are stepping out of the 29er, and saying, with obvious exceptions, "B*****r that for a game of soldiers, never again". I'm at a loss to explain it, but can't ignore it.



Edited by JimC - 01 Sep 18 at 10:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 18 at 9:29am
Originally posted by mozzy


1) What will this be like for my social life? Will I be able to meet lots of fun people regularly?
2) How accessible is fair racing (physically, financially and geographically)?
3) What are the broad skills being tested, do I excel or want to learn them
4a) What is the prestige of winning / doing well (for the competitive)?
4b) Whats the 'rush / thrill' of sailing it (for the less competitive)?
5) How good is the boat design specifics?

Its an interesting list, and I'm (I hope) not stupid enough to tell you you're wrong about your priorities.
However consider the average club sailor probably does about 1.1 opens a year (his club, and 1 in 10 travel) then points 1,2 scarcely apply, 3 and 4a are de-emphasised and there's a bunch more emphasis on the design.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 18 at 9:57am
Jimc,
Perhaps it's the simplicity of boats like the Enterprise they are going for, quick to rig, not to taxing to sail with a fair turn of speed and last but not least some comfort, plus not to frightening for non sailing partners.


Edited by 423zero - 01 Sep 18 at 9:59am
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