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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 18 at 9:45am
Originally posted by mozzy

It would be interesting to compare distance sailed and speed, upwind and down.†
The 14 is quite narrow for it's sail area, which I guess is why bigger crews are favoured.†
The 800 is over leveraged downwind up to the high teens. With it's fractional kite it easy to push to hard and stall the kite. It still pays to push hard for the VMG, but you have to be careful.
Do you reckon the I14 would be faster downwind with a smaller kite above a certain wind strength? Do you ever get that point where it's too powerful to get flow over it, jib backing?†

Yes shame I donít use the pro start these days that would probs store the info. In 15 kt flat water I would expect 11-12 kts upwind at 100 deg give or take a few degrees upwind. Downwind maybe 15 or 16 kts not sure of gybeing angle maybe 80deg varying massively with wind strength. You canít rally lean on the kite too hard but at 35m2 itís nearly twice size of 800 kite I think.
Yep only 6í wide so a bit tender but tuneable so plenty people win races down at 155kg which is max of corrected range 800 I think.
Yes I think in wind smaller / flatter kite would be good, but you can only measure one in at major regattas so they tend to be more of a compromise. Champs have reaches too which moderates things too.   I suspect the boatspeed is limited slightly by the tfoil downwind, as well as lack of rm, but foil makes downwind in 15kts plus possible. And makes the boat a lot faster upwind.
I donít think Iíve ever had full goosewing jib whilst twin stringing, itís sketchy as hell if crew is in to drop or hoist, but I imagine that in 20kts plus kite is very well eased and more of a parachute than foil even when twin stringing. Gybeing angles get pretty low I guess thru 60 deg.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 18 at 12:23am
Originally posted by mozzy

Mmm in that case, I'd be speaking to your doctor... but 220 minus your age will not give a max, or safe working limit, or anything at all useful to an individual in anyway. 

I'd run a mile from any trainer or even worse health professional who quoted a 'safe' or 'max' heart rate from a formula based on age... but i'd run slowly... just to be safe :)  

GP is on it and while I have a couple of issues I've been passed as pretty fit and healthy for my age (my EF of 65% is in the upper half of the normal range). I will probably refrain from doing anything too full on unless I have built up to it again (I used to race Raceboards and ride mountain bikes hard but have not done the same intensity exercise for a few years).

IIRC I read about the "220 minus your age" figure either on t'net (so it must be true Wink) or in a mountain bike mag or some such. I have never troubled 'personal trainers' with my time or my money..........


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 30 Dec 18 at 12:26am
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mozzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 18 at 12:06am
It would be interesting to compare distance sailed and speed, upwind and down. 

The 14 is quite narrow for it's sail area, which I guess is why bigger crews are favoured. 

The 800 is over leveraged downwind up to the high teens. With it's fractional kite it easy to push to hard and stall the kite. It still pays to push hard for the VMG, but you have to be careful.

Do you reckon the I14 would be faster downwind with a smaller kite above a certain wind strength? Do you ever get that point where it's too powerful to get flow over it, jib backing? 
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 18 at 11:49pm
Originally posted by mozzy

Oli, HR was on me again, with no flu to blame the high HR on... sailing must be pretty decent work out after all!†
The 29er boys are pretty good, won their last circuit event comprehensively.†
The 800 and I14 seem to hold pretty similar speed downwind (give or take a knot or two), but you guys have such deep gybing angles it was insane! Were you crewing for the day?

Alex Knight was crewing me he entered by phone so it was a bit wrong.
Yes in that weather similar speeds but reckon 5 or more degrees deeper. In less wind we may be faster.
Deffo faster upwind by a knot or so once powered.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 18 at 11:23pm
There is no safe heart rate. Max is just the highest you can get your heart to beat. You find out your max by working as hard as you can til you can't anymore, and that's the max. Your heart doesn't explode if it hits max. It's not some deadly limit.  You just get exhausted pretty quick and it drops. 

Stressing your heart over time will be bad for it... but so is not stressing it at all. If you have a condition, working your heart harder may put you in danger, a doctor may be able to advise... but if they give you a number using a 'max heart rate' guess scale then, I'd get a different doctor. I doubt many people who have heart attacks were at 'max' when it happens. 




Edited by mozzy - 29 Dec 18 at 11:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 18 at 10:57pm
You can't work it out You just get on with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 18 at 10:46pm
Mozzy, so how have you worked out what is "safe" for you?  I am curious to know how  anybody can work out what is "safe" for them individually if they don't take advice from gym trainers etc?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 18 at 9:53pm
Mmm in that case, I'd be speaking to your doctor... but 220 minus your age will not give a max, or safe working limit, or anything at all useful to an individual in anyway. 

I'd run a mile from any trainer or even worse health professional who quoted a 'safe' or 'max' heart rate from a formula based on age... but i'd run slowly... just to be safe :)  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 18 at 9:46pm
By max BPM in this context I mean what is a safe max when exercising. I'm 65 and have a slight heart abnormality (which is been monitored and has not been getting worse over the last 10 years). I had an episode of AV a few years ago during a pretty intense light wind Raceboard which was pretty frightening so I'm a little conscious of not overdoing it these days. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 18 at 9:35pm
Max heart rate should never be calculated, it should be measured as it is totally personal. It might generally decline with age, but anyone actual max won't align with that formula beyond chance. Mine has always been around 190-200 depending on how fatigued I am. I've never seen any correlation between my fitness and my max heart rate. 

Typically if you sign up to a (rubbish) gym they will do some max HR calculation from your age then set you training zones for cardio... but it's not worth the paper it's written on and could even be dangerous, yet you see this calculation often repeated. 

Resting heart rate varies. If I measure it first thing in the morning laying down it's usually in the high 30's (but I've measured 28!). Typically sat down middle of the day, relaxed it will be somewhere between 40 and 50.

I am surprised though how high it is sailing. I don't perceive it to be as hard as cycling. However, sailing you have a lot of other things to focus on beyond how hard you're working. 

I do know I can hold a pretty high HR for a long time... 182 for 2.5 hours in a road race 176 for 50 miles, TT effort - 171 for 100 miles. So the 164 average for 1hr15 in the pursuit, whilst higher than I thought, is still some way off a 'race' effort. More like a hard-ish training ride. 


Edited by mozzy - 29 Dec 18 at 9:44pm
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