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Setting a course around the cans.....
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Brass View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Brass

Pet peeve (doesn't quite rank with 'crash tack'):  there is no such thing as a 'passing mark'. 

Appendix B has the concept of passing a mark [grin]. Agreed the term is not used outside the appendix, but it is useful in this context. I must admit I'm not entirely clear what it brings to Appendix B, but that's maybe because I've never been involved in board competition.
 
I notice that it's used in the defined term 'rounding or passing' which the boards use instead of a zone in rule 18.

Originally posted by JimC


Originally posted by Brass

Why would you want to set a default of  rounding all marks (although sometimes SI do this through carelessness)?


Consider a course like this, which is quite useful for round the cans handicap racing.



If a careless or hurried amateur race team sets the starboard rounding mark a bit to the right of the rhumb line between windward and leeward marks, and the leeward mark is not defined as a rounding mark...
I see what you are driving at.

My preference would be to write in the SI Course:  Red Mark is a rounding mark, or to be rounded to port, rather than making a default.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6342 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by Brass

My preference would be to write in the SI


If you're writing SIs for an event completely agree, but consider club racing at a typical UK club like mine. We have a standard set of SIs to cover the whole season, and courses are set on the day. Its a bit impractical to edit a set of SIs and publish them between 10am when you set the course and 10:24 when the sequence starts!

As for the situation where you get out there and the wind goes round 90 degrees and you have to hastily change the course... Mind you if a course has to be completely reset in 5 minutes flat out on the water the sensible RO makes sure the new one is very simple - 3 or 4 marks and all port rounding, otherwise some folks are bound to get lost.
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Posts: 5975 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 12:46pm
They use the Alzheimers Prevention Rule at Redoubt.. Make us poor old b**tards use as many of the 9 buoys as often as possible as a memory test, it shouldn't be allowed. there should only be three marks to remember in any course.
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Posts: 8674 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 6:09pm
Write the course down on masking tape...
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Posts: 5975 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Write the course down on masking tape...
If you saw my dry suit cuff, with layers of cryptic tape.. 2P 3P 7S 4S 6S 9P 8P. 1 -Bank
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Posts: 64 		Post Options Post Options   Quote snowleopard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 18 at 1:38pm
It's a very long time since I was involved in club racing but I remember this issue coming up from time to time. If travelling from mark A to mark C via mark B when B is off to starboard from the course between A and C, the norm would be to leave B to port.  If the RO specifies a loop round B, that means leaving B to stbd. 

Back in the day, savvy helms would sail direct from A to C, thereby leaving B to stbd and satisfying the requirements of the course. Is that not the case today?
One hull good, two hulls better.
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Posts: 8674 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 18 at 9:56pm
Why would you want a mark to be looped, unless you happen to be a boat repairer short of work?
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 18 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Why would you want a mark to be looped, unless you happen to be a boat repairer short of work?
No-one would want a mark to be looped, but sometimes circumstances force it.

See the situation JimC described in his post on 11 Dec 17, with a laid mark that could be accidentally laid on the 'wrong' side of the line joining the previous and the next mark.

Likewise, in Sydney, we have a number of permanently laid racing marks for use by all clubs which the port authority requires to be rounded only to starboard:  if you've got one of those on a wing where it would naturally be rounded to port, then it has to be looped to starboard.
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Posts: 2855 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 18 at 10:51pm
Sorry that's complete rubbish. looping marks is daft and pointless. If the course says pass a mark to Starboard and you have to loop it to pass that side then ignore it completely and you'll still be passing it to Starboard.......
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Posts: 629 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 18 at 8:44am
RYA appeal 1985/4 applies.

http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Racing/RacingInformation/RacingRules/RYA%20Case%20Book%2003.17.pdf#page68

When a race committee intends a mark to be looped, the mark must be identified as a rounding mark. When the sailing instructions do not do so, or when they are ambiguous, a boat may elect not to round a mark when she can still leave it on the required side and in the correct order.


Edited by Presuming Ed - 18 Mar 18 at 8:49am
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