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ISAF Youth Worlds

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GarethT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 16 at 9:11am
Originally posted by Andy Ash-Vie

I would have no objection to a collective action against Israel, I find their behaviour abhorrent, almost as bad as Hammas. But the critical point is that is should be a collective action not a unilateral one. Sure anybody is individually free not to deal with Israel but you can't agree to hold an open international event and then applied unilateral sanctions according to national prejudices.

If we do not stand up to this who is next? I'm not too keen on Saudi's human rights, should we ban them in the UK? How about gay athletes in a Russian event? Perhaps women in British Sailing should be obliged to cover up in Muslim countries?

So if we are to have true World Champs, you can't go excluding people that you don't like. If you want to pick and choose, sure that is your national prerogative to hold a closed entry event but you can't claim it to be an International event under the auspices of our International body.


Can't argue with any of that.
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Andy Ash-Vie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andy Ash-Vie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 16 at 9:01am
I would have no objection to a collective action against Israel, I find their behaviour abhorrent, almost as bad as Hammas. But the critical point is that is should be a collective action not a unilateral one. Sure anybody is individually free not to deal with Israel but you can't agree to hold an open international event and then applied unilateral sanctions according to national prejudices.

If we do not stand up to this who is next? I'm not too keen on Saudi's human rights, should we ban them in the UK? How about gay athletes in a Russian event? Perhaps women in British Sailing should be obliged to cover up in Muslim countries?

So if we are to have true World Champs, you can't go excluding people that you don't like. If you want to pick and choose, sure that is your national prerogative to hold a closed entry event but you can't claim it to be an International event under the auspices of our International body.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 16 at 7:53am
Like it or not, sport and politics are intertwined. Why else would governments plough considerable sums of money into Olympic sports. Note how we give more funding to sports that will deliver medals. If it was about wellbeing and sports development, we'd spread it more evenly.

It's a form of propaganda.

My view, if nations want to play with the rest of the world, they should play by the rest of world's rules. The UN should grow a pair.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 16 at 4:06am
There were many, many people who thought that the exclusion of South African sportspeople was a damn good way of exerting pressure to end a disgraceful regime.  Is it better to wave and cheer while the representatives of a racist regime compete?
 
What would happen if individual countries started to take action against the sports that compete against a country that is subject to a boycott like the Gleneagles Agreement?  What about if there was a situation as there was in the early '80s, where sailors from the UK were banned from sailing in world championships against South Africans?  We ended up in exactly the same situation where some athletes were excluded.
 
Is it really easier for ISAF to sit back and cop the abuse, than it would be for them to have cancelled the worlds?  Which is the less spineless route?
 
It seems that there is no easy solution to this issue, unless we think it's 100% tickety boo to be in a situation where we may have to applaud while the national flag of a country that chose to murder many of its own citizens was raised in honour of a team that was chosen on a discriminatory basis.  If there was a South African team there that was only chosen from white athletes, while outstanding black sailors were banned from travelling and forced to sail separate regattas from sub-standard venues (which is the way it used to be) would you feel happy if kids were sailing against them? 


Edited by Chris 249 - 22 Jan 16 at 4:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Richard Gladwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 16 at 12:32am
I see the Israeli Table Tennis team which was being subject to the same Malaysian welcome as the Israeli Sailing Team  - but their world body threatened to impose sanctions on the Malaysians - has elected to pull out of the competition.

Someone has told the Malaysians  that they won't face sanctions as a result - so they have got off the hook again.

The only people who can deal to this issue are the world bodies who are proving to be remarkably spineless.

RG
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 16 at 10:02pm
Not allowing your athletes to compete in certain places and not allowing other country's athletes to perform in your abode are slightly different issues, I think, from a practical viewpoint, if not a moral one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 16 at 9:33pm
I suspect quite a few countries would not let their athletes compete in Israel.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 16 at 9:09pm
As far as I'm aware, if the games were to be held in Israel, I think malaysians would struggle to be able to compete in them also.  No one with a Malaysian passport can travel to Israel, as it quite clearly says so on their passports.  Whether that's a rule imposed by Israel or Malaysia I'm unsure, but I'd hope that if this was the other way round everyone would be showing equal interest. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 16 at 12:45pm
Trouble is, politics is always subjective, not objective, so comparing different situations doesn't necessarily work very well.

I disagreed with the SA sporting ban at the time, for many of the reasons people are setting for the Isreal one here. Hindsight has made me realise I was wrong. Doesn't mean I'd be wrong (or right) this time, as the situations are different.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blueboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 16 at 10:32am
Originally posted by Chris 249


 Greece did not allow South African athletes to play in the country as a protest against apartheid. Was that wrong? 


Yes and the same answer to your similar examples.

So it was OK for the UK or Australia to ban South African athletes, but not OK for Greece to ban South African athletes?  



The UK was bound to do so by the Gleneagles agreement. That is not the same as action by an individual country. I'm not entirely happy about any set of nations except the UN making such a decision but the Commonwealth is multi-regional and multi-ethnic.




Is the UK now going to be banned from holding ISAF world titles because it has recently denied a visa to a sports official because of his political connections?


I'm afraid I don't know what case you are talking about. Provide a link to the story and I'll tell you what I think.




Edited by blueboy - 03 Jan 16 at 10:35am
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