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Nice new Laser for Christmas

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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 1:24pm
Except, Rupert, the text makes no sense in relation to the Z420, all of which, so far as I can see are white, have adjustable rake and have no reason to be advertised as having 'lighter weight'.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 1:30pm
The ad was a mix of the 2 - the red has stayed with the Laser ad. As for weight, maybe it is a carry over from selling them in the US - how much does a "Club 420" weigh?

On the other hand, maybe it is all a huge conspiracy where Sailboats have ordered a couple of dozen extra light red Lasers with the mast rake specially set and these boats are set to clean up on the Laser circuit for years to come.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 1:43pm
maybe they were trying to just take the p1ss a bit- they should fit right in here then.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

'red ones are faster' - maybe got taken a little too literally ;-)

I suspect it probably is a cock-up, although it seems very handy/convenient for the boat that isn't sailed here in the UK to carry the can for the mistake.  (No one buys 420s for team racing here do they?)  

But I also think that considering the class we are talking about, that it would be prudent to follow Bruce's recommendation to ensure that the confusion is handled efficiently and with independent oversight.

 A general reference James -or Kevin B Wilson?  'My one's faster 'cos mine's a red one'


Edited by sargesail - 02 Dec 14 at 1:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by Bruce

Respectfully disagree JimC.

Either it's true or it isn't.

No amount of talking will put this genie back in the bottle. There have been rumours about these differences (weight and mast rake) for years. Now it's been published.

This issue needs to be put to rest and fast!! Not with talk but with facts from someone who the Laser community can trust. It's not a conspiracy, it's either a lighter boat or not. It's got a different mast rake or it hasn't. If it's true, then it needs to go further to protect the Laser as a class. If it's false then we can all compete for the Olympics (or whatever) with minds put to rest...

I'm not sure you could call what is common knowledge in the laser fleet "rumours" even if it's not officially talked about.

All you have to do is go around the boat park with a tape measure measuring rake.  They're all different, everybody who this would matter to already knows, and it's even mentioned in most of the laser training books you can find as far as I know.  We're not talking 5mm here either...


Edited by bustinben - 02 Dec 14 at 1:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 4:45pm
Big Ben always checked the rake on new boats carefully

Its all very well saying that this wont apply at events where boats are supplied etc but there are many many more events that you do take you own boat.

I have had numerous Lasers over the years and certainly some were better than others - weight, stiffness, rake - who knows what is was ?



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Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 5:45pm
That's true - and even if you're not interested in trying to get the final tiny advantage (it's not tiny, but let's say it was) you need to make sure you don't buy a duff one.

Interestingly, I had the chance to measure a group of normal, for public consumption laser and a group that had been the supplied boats at the 2011 worlds (maybe 2010, not sure).  The worlds boats all had exactly the same rake.  The non-worlds supplied boats didn't.

So they obviously *can* reduce the variation if they put their minds to it.  And no-variation would be an absolute must for a fleet of supplied boats.  Can you imagine the uproar if say the Olympic favorite had a bad event, missed out on a medal, and then discovered that his/her boat was a duff one?  It would end up in court!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Emilio Castelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 9:44pm
I remember reading somewhere (can't find link) that at the Worlds in Santander they measured all the boats for weight and rake. Results were "secret" though...
In my opinion the quality and consistency of the hulls have improved in the last few years. Leaky boats, inconsistent rake, poorly mounted fittings were the norm early on.

The UK ad is bs; there is no way they made non compliant hulls intentionally, especially with the current legal mess going on. Red hull is definitely not a good idea either....
BTW, in the US you can get a new Laser for $5600 delivered to your door. 
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by Emilio Castelli


The UK ad is bs; there is no way they made non compliant hulls intentionally
No reason for them to be illegal.  I'm sure you can save a number of kg compared to the average just by using the tolerance.
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Bruce View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bruce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 11:26pm
Has anyone been in touch with the UKLA? Maybe this is something for the RYA?

Love to hear something official. The Santander measurements were specifically for mast rake and weight nothing else.

What's nonsense is hearing nothing from the officials.
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