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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by iGRF

What good do class associations do for a builder?

Class assns do a lot for builders, not least by organising events which provide a reason for buying the boat.  Just ask a builder. 

No class assn, no opens, no nationals.  Not that you dare appear at either of course after your drubbing at your first.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac


Class assns do a lot for builders, not least by organising events which provide a reason for buying the boat.  Just ask a builder. 
No class assn, no opens, no nationals.  Not that you dare appear at either of course after your drubbing at your first.


You're a little bitch tonight, tell me, what have you ever won? Some 'National Championship' of two dozen boats? Make you a National Champion does it? Big Hero? You people and you're silly value structure.

Class Associations organise things for their own self amusement/self aggrandisement, it doesn't do the builder any good whatsoever.

New customers is what a builder needs and to assure that, constant innovation is required.

Edited by iGRF - 26 Sep 14 at 10:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 10:49pm
I'm with GRF on this one too. 😰

The CA is like a fan club, it shouldn't really have a say in commercial aspects.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by iGRF

New customers is what a builder needs and to assure that, constant innovation is required.


How did that work for board sailing?
What a builder needs is demand, and constant innovation may not be the only way to achieve it. Controlled depreciation is another option, like the Laser where traditionally the boat claps out fast enough that the front of the fleet want to buy new boats regularly, but slowly enough that the mid fleet were happy to buy the castoffs for not too shabby a price.
The very high innovation classes are not typically the most popular.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 10:50pm

Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Medway Maniac


Class assns do a lot for builders, not least by organising events which provide a reason for buying the boat.  Just ask a builder. 
No class assn, no opens, no nationals.  Not that you dare appear at either of course after your drubbing at your first.


You're a little bitch tonight, tell me, what have you ever won? Some 'National Championship' of two dozen boats? Make you a National Champion does it? Big Hero? You people and you're silly value structure.

Class Associations organise things for their own self amusement/self aggrandisement, it doesn't do the builder any good whatsoever.

New customers is what a builder needs and to assure that, constant innovation is required.

Baseless rubbish, as ever.  <Statement of the obvious at the start of the> Last paragraph aside.


Edit: <> added in view of subsequent discussion.

Edited by Medway Maniac - 27 Sep 14 at 10:03am
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 10:59pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by iGRF

New customers is what a builder needs and to assure that, constant innovation is required.


How did that work for board sailing?


RSX is still a big class, so is the Techno, bigger than Solo's Internationally I expect, As is the Kona Class, board sailing is still working fine elsewhere it's just not doing well here because of the RYA if you really want to know.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 11:08pm
Doesn't the ca keep the interest in the class alive that the builder benefits from. If there is no ca then normally then there is no championships, no opens, etc which keep the class interesting for potential purchasers. Without them the builder has no customers. Therefore the two are intertwined. 

The exception to this is where there is no ca where the builder effectively takes over the role of the ca. They generate the interest in the class which in turn generates the build. Is this what has happened with builders such as Hartleys?
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 11:25pm
At least Wayfarers and Ospreys of Hartley's boats have very active CA's, Maxi.  I suspect the same iss true for the Supernova and Byte as well.

Grumph, my knowledge of the effete, narcissistic side of sailing is limited, but isn't the RSX a heavy one-design developed in 2004?  How does that  support your claim that "constant innovation is required".  The Laser would be another glaring exception to your rule.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 11:31pm
If the manufacturer has enough 'sway' in the decision making process things can work fine, but the moment the decision making process as to what it does or does not build is influenced by those who don't want change to protect their own investment, then it's a recipe for stagnation or slow extinction, getting ISAF involved is another recipe for disaster.

That's why there are so many disparate classes, because the product doesn't evolve, there is no choice but for another to happen along in the name of improvement.

Edited by iGRF - 26 Sep 14 at 11:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 11:36pm
I fail to understand why GRF bothers with racing at all. If there are no identical boats, or at least they change every year because the manufacturer decides on a whim to make them faster, then racing is pointless. You could of course handicap those newer boats making the exercise of improvement pointless as well.

Obviously his best bet is to get any old out of class boat and race alone against the clock. Then he could be his own class association (of one) and have a Nationals every week if he so wished. He would need a class insignia of course....can anybody suggest one? 
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