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your responsibilities as a sailor

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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 5:53pm
Not really.  Compensation culture is a relatively modern phenomenon, whereas buoyancy aids have been compulsory in most sailing clubs for more than twenty years.  Interestingly I was looking at a club website where BAs were only compulsory for kids, not adults.  The club was Hickling Broad, in Norfolk....
the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote marke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 5:59pm
Well you may not have heard of any problems SB - but I had the very upsetting task of pulling out a dead Fireball crew after a TH entrapment in my teens.  Big reservoir, sunny day, F2-F3.  It happens.

Personally I have had a couple of scares with entrapment (admittedly over 40 years of sailing) - once with my crew on a 505 and once myself helming the 49er.  Bouyancy aid didn't help or make it worse in either case - having a crew who knew what they were doing made the difference.  Despite their problems always use a QRH now (and have used it once - probably could have got out without it - but just so reassuring to bang out at the slightest sign of a problem).  I wish there was a better engineered solution than attaching a hook to yourself!

Mark


Edited by marke - 20 May 13 at 6:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 6:12pm
Interestingly I was looking at a club website where BAs were only compulsory for kids, not adults.  The club was Hickling Broad, in Norfolk....

Well, the adults just need to stand up.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by 2547

You often see discussions like this on cycling forums about helmets and nanny state. 
I think ba's should be a matter of personal choice for adults when free sailing but if you wish to participate in an organised event then you have to accept the organisers requirements. 
Their demands have been shaped by the blame and claim culture. 
It is a facet of modern society unfortunately. 


Sounds like the most common sense approach, and when 'free sailing' inland at one of the bigger clubs, we need to probably accept that It also constitutes 'organised sailing', even if we don't like to admit it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote patj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 6:21pm
My OH had the experience of being carried overboard on a gybe by a boom-stowed spinny pole through the buoyancy aid . No harm done but he makes sure to wear the spraytop outside the BA now!
As for responsibilities - how many of us turned up at the weekend and helped our clubs to "push the boat out"?
We managed to support both clubs which were buzzing with visitors being taken out and various others racing or sailing (including ourselves) in perfect conditions for the event.


Edited by patj - 20 May 13 at 6:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 6:23pm
for clarity, I'm not advocating the banning of traps... far from it.  

I'm aware of that. My point is that the logical connection you make between insisting on BAs and banning THs doesn't exist, they are two very different issues.

We all know sailing carries risks, as do many activities. Most of us work to minimise those risks, while still carrying on the sport. That is particularly true of those of us actively involved in clubs who are aware, in addition of the issue of risk to our members, of the negative effects on the sport of accidents. At present the general consensus is quite clearly that BAs reduce risk, and so it's no surprise that most clubs encourage or demand their use. If convincing arguments can be made that BAs do not reduce risk in general for dinghy sailors then I've no doubt that you would find that clubs started taking a different view - as is the case amongst windsurfers where the specific risks are different.

THs have a completely different relationship to sailing - they are essential for aspects of sailing, and while we may be interested in minimising the risks associated with their use, such as by the recent debated over quick release hooks, they are part of sailing and the risks they generate are part of the greater set of risks we have to accept if we are going to sail.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 6:29pm
 "I wish there was a better engineered solution than attaching a hook to yourself!"
I think there is, a flat plate with a recessed hook. I've seen a couple on people but didn't get a chance to find out more. Anybody have experience, name, suppliers, do they work on a standard loop?

As for OP. In my opinion any participation in better than none at all. I think it's a case of different strokes for different folks, do what you are genuinely happy to do and accept that others may not have the same priorities.  


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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 6:36pm
Our had pfd's forced on us by wessex water, so no choice for us anyway.

when I was a kid that I got trapped under the up turned hull of our mirror the buoyancy aid helped and hindered. I was 7 and a good swimmer but the buoyancy aid definitely helped while I was under the boat. However when my dad tried to get me out by pushing my head under the water to past the gunwale it hindered a bit. Luckily I got out on though
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by Do Different

<span style="text-align: left; : rgb251, 251, 253; "> "I wish there was a better engineered solution than attaching a hook to yourself!"</span>
<span style="text-align: left; : rgb251, 251, 253; ">I think there is, a flat plate with a recessed hook. I've seen a couple on people but didn't get a chance to find out more. Anybody have experience, name, suppliers, do they work on a standard loop?</span>
<span style="text-align: left; : rgb251, 251, 253; "></span>
<span style="text-align: left; : rgb251, 251, 253; ">As for OP. </span><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253; text-align: left; ">In my opinion any participation in better than none at all. I think it's a case of different strokes for different folks, do what you are genuinely happy to do and accept that others may not have the same priorities.  </span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253; text-align: left; "></span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253; text-align: left; "></span>


Google bethwaite trapeze system!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by marke

Well you may not have heard of any problems SB - but I had the very upsetting task of pulling out a dead Fireball crew after a TH entrapment in my teens.  Big reservoir, sunny day, F2-F3.  It happens.


I've been fortunate to have never experienced a fatality in 40 years of sailing, but I've seen two incidents of dinghy sailors ending up unconscious in the water at my club.  One was down to a heart attack, the other was down to a sailor getting knocked out & overboard by the boom during a gybe. In both cases safety cover was with them in a few minutes and they both recovered. Did wearing PFD's help keep them alive, I'm not sure, but personally I'd never go on the water without one.
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