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Kirby Sueing LPE, ILCA, ISAF, Rastegar

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SUGmeister View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SUGmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 13 at 10:44pm
Simon SUGmeister
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Peaky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 13 at 11:28pm
"Tape drive sail with your counterfeit Laser, sir?"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 13 at 7:43am
In the grand scheme of things will anyone care if the hulls made in the last 27 months are deemed not legal or counterfeit by a court in the US?

The fact of the matter is that the boats were produced to the construction manual using the relevant tooling and have ISAF issued plaques saying they are a Laser.... What will BKI do...sue everyone who has one and make them sign an undertaking saying they will not sell them and call them a Laser?

I am sure you have all noticed that there is no mention of referring the to boat as a Laser but as a Kirby Sailboat with the builder being required to hold the Laser trademark in the required region....

More evidence that the class is likely to split but all 'grandfathered' hulls being deemed as class legal for the 'new' class. Where this will leave ILCA and the classes Olympic status is anyones guess. In the grand scheme of things does anyone really care right now? Parts are available, the only thing not readily available are new sails but that is more likely down to the new design being imminent and the manufacturers not wanting to get stuck with a large stock of obsolete sails. That and I am told Hyde have washed their hands of the whole matter at the moment....
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 13 at 8:02am
If he wins, he'll receive money and then those boats will be official. If he loses, they are official already. whilst the case is ongoing, they are legal - but ILCA may not want to allow these newer boat to race until the case is settled, for fear of increasing any punitive damages.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 13 at 8:08am
Originally posted by Peaky

If he wins, he'll receive money and then those boats will be official. If he loses, they are official already. whilst the case is ongoing, they are legal - but ILCA may not want to allow these newer boat to race until the case is settled, for fear of increasing any punitive damages.

They satisfy ILCAs requirements though.....

Plus it is the responsibility of the individual to ensure their boat is class legal not the CA...

In my view BKI/Global Sailing (the people whom BK sold the rights to) should have terminated the builder agreements a long time ago and sorted this out through the courts then. Now we are 2 years down the line and this is only just happening. Rastegar has further muddied the waters by transferring the trademark in breach of the builder agreement (this is probably more what this case is about).

If BKI can get control of the trademarks then new builders can be appointed and the class can move forward. I honestly don't think he will ever see the royalties (and let us not forget that he was not the rights holder for a significant period of time during this whole sorry affair).

That and his lovely lawyers made threats to sue various people on another forum over comments they were making. They soon backed down when these people pointed out they were not in the states so they could go whistle......
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blueboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 13 at 8:14am
Originally posted by Peaky

Looks like the Great Laser Debacle has taken another step. Bruce Kirby is sueing all and sundry for Trademark infringements.


Claims I-IV are about trademark. Claims IV-VI are about breach of contract ("builders agreement"). However if there were no breach of contract there would be no claim of misuse of trademark so really, it's all about breach of contract.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 13 at 8:26am
So why would Hyde wash their hands of it Paul? Seems a dumb move if you've got the 'official gig', even if you're a joint supplier.... Unless of course you're not getting paid or something????

Didn't Holt go under due to bad debt? You wouldn't want a similar fate would you?

Edited by pondmonkey - 12 Mar 13 at 8:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 13 at 8:34am
I believe that is why Hyde have stopped making and supplying at this time....non-payment. I believe they are keen to make the new sail though (having been involved in its development).

There are others on this forum who know a lot more about this particular aspect than I.

Holt may have gone under due to bad debt...the problem is they have all let this situation go on far too long. There are clauses for termination, these should have been invoked a long time ago. At that point ILCA/ISAF would have know to not supply plates (this is probably going to be their defence, they were never officially informed of the builder agreements being terminated).
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 13 at 8:57am
I would imagine that BK would be foolish to out-class any boat pre a certain date/sail number... he'd have to to keep the customers buying them happy, whilst protecting his future interests. 

As for Hyde, well if they were supplying a newco. with different shareholders with a new sail, it would be again be daft to hold grievance over oldco.'s payment history... trade out the losses with a bigger slice of that juicy, sweet and succulent profit margin on the official laser sail.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gbr940 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 13 at 9:17am

From my understanding, it seems Kirby Ltd have probably looked at the accounts and inheritence and noticed a LARGE wad of monies missing from non-payment of royalties...thus because essentially breach of contract and therefore the "counterfeit" boats have been built according to Bruce.

It's not the first rumours i've heard of PSE/LPE not paying royalties...the SB3 (now SB20) and Tony Castro had a parting of ways. GO GET THEM BRUCE!!
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