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Kirby Sueing LPE, ILCA, ISAF, Rastegar

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sandgrounder View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 4:34pm
Had to laugh at the irony of the above posts - the fact that you're discussing (arguing over) the relative performance of the various brands / qualities of replica sails highlights the contentious nature of the issue with respect to one-design racing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 4:54pm
Edit: Decided they were not worth it  Wink

Edited by jeffers - 27 Jun 13 at 5:04pm
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 4:54pm
If the standard Rooster replica isn't as good as the proper Laser sail (which many claim is alreay naff), why would you buy it? Buying a low grade replica of what is already a cheap sail (compared to other classes) smacks of false economy to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by GybeFunny

Jeffers I think you are misunderstanding the Rooster 'premium' sail.  The website just says that their premium replacement sail is better than their standard replacement sail.
The way I read it they are saying that their standard replacement sail is inferior to the official sail but their premium replacement sail is on a par with the official sail.
I have a standard replacement sail and will vouch that it isnt as good as the official sail, I just cant get it to set as well. I expect the premium sail will be much more similar to the official sail.
I do not think there is any intention for the premium sail to be faster than the official sail....

I had a flyer from them. They clearly stated in mid range winds the sail was faster than the item it replaces..... This is why i raised it with our sailing committee to address it before someone appeared with one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by Peaky

If the standard Rooster replica isn't as good as the proper Laser sail (which many claim is alreay naff), why would you buy it? Buying a low grade replica of what is already a cheap sail (compared to other classes) smacks of false economy to me.


Is that before or after either of them has seen a few weekends' use?
For many the replica is a replacement for a very tired sail.
The differences between some of the old rags people use and a new sail are many times greater than the differences between a Rooster and a Laser sail.
Also the differences among samples of so-called identical official sails can be significant.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Jardine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Originally posted by Peaky

If the standard Rooster replica isn't as good as the proper Laser sail (which many claim is alreay naff), why would you buy it? Buying a low grade replica of what is already a cheap sail (compared to other classes) smacks of false economy to me.


Is that before or after either of them has seen a few weekends' use?
For many the replica is a replacement for a very tired sail.
The differences between some of the old rags people use and a new sail are many times greater than the differences between a Rooster and a Laser sail.
Also the differences among samples of so-called identical official sails can be significant.


I've got to agree with that - my sail was 2nd hand when I bought the boat in 2008. After 5 more seasons use, and most recently a repair when my top section broke, the only way I can now describe it is 'tired'. LOL

I think that's the point about club racing - many people are just looking for a cheap boat they can go out and have a blast in against people who are in the same sort of boat. The Laser covers perfectly as it's so easy to store in a rack / tow down and then rig quickly. The problem with 'real' kit is that a replacement part, be it sail, spar, foil or tiller, is damn expensive for what it is. Replica parts fill the need for cheap parts to keep club Lasers out on the water.

I'm not going to go do the circuit in my Laser. I bought it as a boat to go have cheap fun in as having 2 young kids take up my time and money.

If I found myself at a club that was pedantic about my using genuine kit for my club racing then I'd move on to a club with bit more of a relaxed attitude. That's what I've got at my current club - and I've got to say when I do get the chance to get out on the water, it's damn good fun and relaxing.

Isn't that what it's supposed to be?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 8:56pm
I had a tatty old Laser a few seasons back as a "spare" boat to sail when my crew wasn't available for our "proper" boat. The old Laser came with a 30 year old blown out and virtually unusable official sail. A new official sail would probably have cost pretty much the same as what I'd paid for the boat, but thanks to a £150 replica sail I got a couple of years club racing out of it. Can't say I ever won much, wouldn't have dreamed of taking it to an open or other class event, but thanks to the replica sail it got another boat on the water at the club. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 8:57pm
All amateur sport is supposed to be fun, it's just a hobby after all. So should amateurs be allowed to use replica sails at the Nationals, whilst those in the RYA squad have to use real sails?

There seems to be a thought that the action of using a replica sail is harmless and without consequence. I don't think that is right.

The logical extension of supportingreplica sails is to support a rule opening up the choice of sailmaker in a legal way. But if that rule came in Laser sail prices would only go one way, and it isn't down.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 9:33pm
I didn't get the rooster replica radial as it said it had differences such as battens. I don't think the premium sails are supposed to be different shape, just softer material like the real thing. Supposed to be less stiff and therefore give better gust response and lower wind shape. Who knows. MSB do one too, but emphasise same panel size and batten length.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by Peaky

All amateur sport is supposed to be fun, it's just a hobby after all. So should amateurs be allowed to use replica sails at the Nationals, whilst those in the RYA squad have to use real sails?

There seems to be a thought that the action of using a replica sail is harmless and without consequence. I don't think that is right.

The logical extension of supportingreplica sails is to support a rule opening up the choice of sailmaker in a legal way. But if that rule came in Laser sail prices would only go one way, and it isn't down.


They will charge what the market will bear.
If their market is reduced to a few with olympic or international hopes, they might be able to charge what North etc charge for a Finn sail. To those customers, the costs of their campaigns is way bigger than sails. They are but a small corner of the Laser market.
One keelboat class I know has a single-sailmaker rule. The CA does a deal for three years to sole-source the sails. As a result the sails are made in batches and work out much cheaper than say an RS400 set, for a much bigger rig. But their CA is only answerable to the owners, so represents their interests.
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