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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 14 at 6:56am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

That bridle is set low -> high leach tension and sheet loads. Can you lengthen it?

The sheet loads are surprisingly light in reality and the kicker is pretty powerful so you can control the sail really well. I found it very easy to use too much kicker and 'choke' the main...
Paul
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 14 at 10:48am
Originally posted by jeffers


the kicker is pretty powerful so you can control the sail really well. I found it very easy to use too much kicker and 'choke' the main...

No doubt, given that the mainsheet is already doing half the kickerís work!
Not saying you are wrong, but if that bridle is the right length it would be unique on a sloop rig, in my experience. Singlehanders/una rigs need much less sail twist, of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 14 at 11:05am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by jeffers


the kicker is pretty powerful so you can control the sail really well. I found it very easy to use too much kicker and 'choke' the main...

No doubt, given that the mainsheet is already doing half the kickerís work!
Not saying you are wrong, but if that bridle is the right length it would be unique on a sloop rig, in my experience. Singlehanders/una rigs need much less sail twist, of course.

I am sure Rodney can cast his eye over it when he brings us some d-zeros to play with at the end of the month....
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 14 at 12:04pm
The bridle IS set  rather low in the photo ... but should be rigged up for very quick adjustment if roped to specification.   Should take 20 seconds to change ... if that and certainly no more.

The mainsheet loadings are very low anyway as stated - this was sought as we developed the boat.  The logic is that you should be playing the main and 'off the boom' makes this much quicker/ easier (and has other benefits)  Conventional centre-main seems to encourage too many to cleat off the mainsheet for much of the time ...  possibly because of the often typically higher sheet loadings.   Take away the cleat set-up when using 'off the boom' and you encourage much more playing of the mainsheet - but you must have low loadings to make this practical.

BUT - Icon rules do allow any sheeting system - if that is 'your' thing and 'off the boom' is a bit too alien.  You can use the default system (off the boom) or boats can be setup with a conventional centre-man system complete with swivel cleater and tower over the plate case ... or you could even rig it to be 'traditionally' stern sheeted.

Mike L.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 14 at 12:50pm
All spot on there, Mike, including the decision to allow freedom of choice on an item of minimal cost.

I can't stand classes like the 2k that anally insist on everyone sailing boats as bad as each other (with that obstructive centre sheeting on a boat that begs you to move forward of it every tack, and a thwart that almost invariably puts the crew in the wrong place, too far aft!).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 14 at 1:11pm
+1 MM - I've always liked Mike's approach to liberalising one design boats.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 14 at 2:07pm
Agreed.  With my combination of wrist, elbow, shoulder problems off the boom doesn't work for me, so it's great to have the choice, plus to be able to switch from one set up to another fairly easily. The boat here does allow for sheeting from the floor, but doesn't have a jammer.  I will have a close look at the bridle maybe even this evening, if it is too tight it would explain the leech stalling the main.
the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote scotsfinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 14 at 3:07pm
These notes from Charlie Cumbley, North Sails,  might help early starters

hi Martin
it sounds like its getting serious with that PY jump!

The main difference with a square head is its actually very hard to choke up the sail or over sheet it, this is because the head has so much leverage. When you sail upwind just have a play with the kicker but you will find you can use more than you think, simply because the head will blow open with all the leverage, as you wind on the kicker the mast will bend and the head will close but also flatten at the same time due to the increase in mast bend. Use the leech telltails as a guide, i.e. too closed if they are stalling but again you will be surprised how much you can use. A lot of your pointing ability comes from the lower leech on the main so if the sail is too open you will likely be sailing fast but low, often with a full and twisty sail, in most conditions it would be better to use more kicker and have a flatter, tighter leeched sail.
The cunningham is then used in addition to this to help flatten the head and you can quite happily add a purchase to make this more powerful.

In conjunction, with the extra kicker tension you may then need to use a little more lower tension, the way to test this is to sail upwind with max kicker for the conditions, the lowers are there to limit the lower mast bend when the kicker is being used, so if there is an overbend crease from the clew to the middle/lower mast then there is too much mast bend and the lowers need to be tightened, likewise in the light airs when little kicker is being used, lowers can be eased to help increase the mast bend and flatten the sail, (reduce drag) so its always a balance of kicker versus lowers. 

Equally, shroud tension helps keep the headstay in tension which you need to be able to point, but also easing shroud tension in the super breezy conditions will enable the mast to bend a little more, thereby flattening the sails and opening the jib leech. to help keep the boat on its feet.

i hope these pointers will be helpful but if you have any further queries please just drop me a line
best
 


Regards,

Charlie Cumbley
 
NORTH SAILS ONE DESIGN
 
Largs Sailing Club. D-Zero GBR 57, B14 744
www.blueseaconsultingllp.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 14 at 5:34pm
The boat here does allow for sheeting from the floor, but doesn't have a jammer.  I will have a close look at the bridle maybe even this evening, if it is too tight it would explain the leech stalling the main.

I would suggest NOT putting any sort of centre-main tower or strop on the central spine where Devoti have put the obvious hardpoints (you can see them as there are recessed fastenings both sides of trhe central spine).  In this position it is far too far back in the boat I'm afraid. 

You would find the gap behind it too restricted to take any sort of decent extension through on a regular basis !  Also the helm then has to tack way back down the boat ... and this is not fast unless they are of the  flyweight variety.  The position for any sort of floor based system elements would be roughly a couple of inches  further forward than the control line turning blocks on the spine before the lines cross the boat to each side from the spine - you may have to adjust the positon of the boom block to do this as well ....

BTW I'd not be too worried about the main stalling  - the main is both relatively open and relatively flat ... you would have to try pretty hard to compromise it badly or without it being very obvious !   Just aim to keep the boat flowing forward and don't pinch if you do not have a good reason to go there.  Best VMG upwind is not necesaarily with the boom right on the centre-line upwind anyway but if you 'need' to point for tactical reasons Icon is still capable of just about climbing up plate glass if you are doing things with a bit of finesse and the boat is set up optimally !   If the boat is set up correctly then 'time on the water' is the best lesson available to anyone - but try different things, pinching, going a tad lower, mainsheet tension on a bit more, kicker - more or less.   In other words play with it  for some time and get the 'feel' of it.  It is that bit different from many boats out there .... 

Mike L.
 
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 14 at 8:25am
There is something there on the floor already of that boat (it is the demo boat after all). I was a little sceptical about going off the boom but it was surprisingly easy to get used to and definitely gives a better feel.

The bridle being a little tight might explain the 'choking' that I felt when sailing the boat.

To be fair I do go 'off the boom' on my Laser on reaching and running legs as long as it is not too windy.
Paul
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