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Advertising via sail numbers? 55
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SoggyBadger View Drop Down
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Posts: 551 		Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 11:46am
Originally posted by Bogeye

Not sure about the numbers but, is the laminate that's been used for the mainsail legal? It looks like the same stuff that was used on the Merlin that won the Tiger Trophy a couple of years ago and then retired.

I think Banks Sails make the sails for Speed now, they have In House Certification, so it should be OK, but I thought the Merlins and Fireballs had similar rules on materials.



If you're referring to The Osprey main, yes that Aero Web is class legal, as are moulded sails.
Best wishes from deep in the woods

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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6582 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 11:47am
Its always awkward when people take the proverbial...

No-one likes peeling sail numbers off and on again, and if you have to borrow a sail for some reason then you really don't want to have to peel the owners numbers off and replace them, with sticky residue left on from where your numbers were. And when it comes to second hand spinnakers its a real pain in the neck to change numbers and can damage the sail, so there are good reasons for being allowed to use incorrect numbers in some circumstances.

But this - well it just feels like selfish p*** taking on the part of the manufacturer and their works team. And, as has been said, not the first time by this particular outfit.



Edited by JimC - 04 Feb 13 at 11:48am
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L192444 View Drop Down
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Posts: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Quote L192444 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 12:00pm
I note the Fireball sailed as 555 but on his spinnaker it is 55.

I wonder if their request for sail number change covered this?

The whole issue is a bit of a can of worms ...
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Puddlebuster View Drop Down
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Posts: 43 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Puddlebuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by chrisg

Yes, it is Speed Sails advertising, and no the numbers are not the correct hull numbers. Hence my comment in the 420 rudder thread about it generally being the manufacturers taking the pi"55" while the individual competitors are generally as far as I know sticking to the rules at the winter handicap events.

For the Dash, several boats arrived at registration and handed in scratty bits of paper with hand scribbled notes asking to use sail number 55 and thinking no more of it at the time we accepted them. But then they all stood round discussing it and it became apparent to our registration team what had happened.

They caused more than a few headaches when we were trying to compile our results, as you can imagine trying to finish 90 odd boats and get times all in one go didn't always allow for classes to be read out so we only had sail numbers to go off in some instances. And with 5 or 6 boats of different class all with the same sail number it wasn't always apparent which was which. Pretty selfish really.

We mentioned it for the other events in the series and so they asked them to add the extra sail numbers to the 55's.

To be honest, had i not been told what they were trying to say I would never have put two and two together so not really sure how successful it is as advertising. To me it looks a bit like those people that squash numbers up on numberplates to make them look like they are trying to say a word but don't quite manage it.....
 
Chris I think you will find that emails are in existence for your event.  You will also see at the request of one race officer when contacted the correct sail number was used for the Phantom at Brass Monkey. For your event I carried a correctly numbered sail and also the means to change the number if required.  I was permitted to use it by your officals and not on a scrappy bit of paper!
The only event I have not made a formal request was at the Tiger and I was informed acceptance had been made through sailracer and the organisers for the races.  Sailracer allowed the boats to enter the entire series with those numbers and have been consulted by myself and others as to what they required us to do.  No change was required and they initially slope shoulders to the race commitees.
If you consider it selfish for me to turn out all over the country to every winter event at MY expense then you are very short sighted.
 
Unlike you not to check your facts?  Peoples view on the sail numbers are relevant which is why I made efforts to comply. As for the usual sl*g off by the uninformed on here I am not the least bit surprised.  Maybe they should be pleased that companies such as this and P and B etc are putting considerable sums into development and support which may in the end benefit other dinghy sailors.
 
 
 
 
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Bogeye View Drop Down
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Posts: 3 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bogeye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by Bogeye

Not sure about the numbers but, is the laminate that's been used for the mainsail legal? It looks like the same stuff that was used on the Merlin that won the Tiger Trophy a couple of years ago and then retired.

I think Banks Sails make the sails for Speed now, they have In House Certification, so it should be OK, but I thought the Merlins and Fireballs had similar rules on materials.



If you're referring to The Osprey main, yes that Aero Web is class legal, as are moulded sails.
Sorry - I meant the Fireball Main on the boat that won.
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batman View Drop Down
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Posts: 12 		Post Options Post Options   Quote batman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 12:21pm
Fireball's are allowed to use moulded sails I believe- there are plenty of North 3DL sails around.
 
ROs generally give permission to use the incorrect sail number- but normally becuase of borrowed sails and the like, NOT as a cheap, tacky 'boy-racer' style advert...
 
Can I sail with the number '1' so I cant start 2 feet further forward on every start...
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ex laser View Drop Down
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Posts: 725 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ex laser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by Puddlebuster

Originally posted by chrisg

Yes, it is Speed Sails advertising, and no the numbers are not the correct hull numbers. Hence my comment in the 420 rudder thread about it generally being the manufacturers taking the pi"55" while the individual competitors are generally as far as I know sticking to the rules at the winter handicap events.

For the Dash, several boats arrived at registration and handed in scratty bits of paper with hand scribbled notes asking to use sail number 55 and thinking no more of it at the time we accepted them. But then they all stood round discussing it and it became apparent to our registration team what had happened.

They caused more than a few headaches when we were trying to compile our results, as you can imagine trying to finish 90 odd boats and get times all in one go didn't always allow for classes to be read out so we only had sail numbers to go off in some instances. And with 5 or 6 boats of different class all with the same sail number it wasn't always apparent which was which. Pretty selfish really.

We mentioned it for the other events in the series and so they asked them to add the extra sail numbers to the 55's.

To be honest, had i not been told what they were trying to say I would never have put two and two together so not really sure how successful it is as advertising. To me it looks a bit like those people that squash numbers up on numberplates to make them look like they are trying to say a word but don't quite manage it.....
 
Chris I think you will find that emails are in existence for your event.  You will also see at the request of one race officer when contacted the correct sail number was used for the Phantom at Brass Monkey. For your event I carried a correctly numbered sail and also the means to change the number if required.  I was permitted to use it by your officals and not on a scrappy bit of paper!
The only event I have not made a formal request was at the Tiger and I was informed acceptance had been made through sailracer and the organisers for the races.  Sailracer allowed the boats to enter the entire series with those numbers and have been consulted by myself and others as to what they required us to do.  No change was required and they initially slope shoulders to the race commitees.
If you consider it selfish for me to turn out all over the country to every winter event at MY expense then you are very short sighted.
 
Unlike you not to check your facts?  Peoples view on the sail numbers are relevant which is why I made efforts to comply. As for the usual sl*g off by the uninformed on here I am not the least bit surprised.  Maybe they should be pleased that companies such as this and P and B etc are putting considerable sums into development and support which may in the end benefit other dinghy sailors.


 

yes you are correct, there is always a lot of uninformed sl88ing off here. its a forum!!!! Confused
but in this case your picking on the wrong bloke.

with out chrisg there would not be a draycote dash at all for you to travel to. he spends lots of his own time organising and making sure it runs well. so you are well out of order picking on him.

at the end of the day, if you had all sailed with the correct numbers, this thread and all sl88ing off would not exist.
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Pierre View Drop Down
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Posts: 1532 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 12:29pm
Evidently I might be wrong then....
There, I said it.
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Drylander View Drop Down
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Posts: 11 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Drylander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 12:33pm
ROs generally give permission to use the incorrect sail number- but normally becuase of borrowed sails and the like, NOT as a cheap, tacky 'boy-racer' style advert...

Think this is an attempt to get them noticed, not been at the fore since loosing their top sailmakers a year or so back, Don't think they even make the sails in house any more !!
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Puddlebuster View Drop Down
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Posts: 43 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Puddlebuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 13 at 12:45pm
Ex Laser
I agree with you entirely and support Chris to the utmost.  I go out of my way to thank the organisers and helpers at these events and said this to Chris on the pre start to the Dash.
 
This is the very reason I have gone out of my way to make sure I comply with the organisers and frankly why I am surprised Chris has included me in his comments about the entry to his event which in my case is completely incorrect.
 
If a manfacturer wants to allocate these numbers and it is accepted by those same organisers where is the problem?  I am certain 55 means nothing to 99% of people but thanks to the usual rantings of the forum contributors they have done the job for him. LOL
 
At Chris G,s meeting I think there were only three boats, a Merlin , Osprey and Ent which were split in to two different fleets.  I believe the Tiger is the only one where they have all turned out.  Osprey Ent and Phantom are surprisingly different to look at but I accept can make further problems for the scorers.  I agree they should have enforced the rule of correct numbers!.......................................but they had their chance and did not.  It was not due to the unwillingness of those sailing the boats.
 
I hope the forum excitement over the numbers continues as per other ridiculous threads and highlights the fleet Speed Sails has taken the trouble to put together (and fine bunch of fellows they are too) Wink
 
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