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Doug Lord ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 03 Sep 05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 66 |
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I've been tossing this around for a while: what about a 16-17' fairly high performance dinghy designed so that the skipper sits down in it like a mini 12 but with a difference: the majority of ballast would be in a"wing" between 6 and 10' long and would slide side to side either by electric power or by the crew using a "bicycle winch":leg power moves the weight(weight about 170-200 pounds). The whole wing would move side to side along with a weight sliding on it so the CG of the movable weight could get up to 8' or so from the CL of the boat.The wing would be supported by "Trapeze" wires. The wing and the crew seat would be somehow tied together so that the crew could slide aft as necessary and/or the boat would be equipped with a rudder t-foil.
There would be a deep daggerboard(retractble) with some weight on it- and the ends of the wing would contain buoyancy pods to help prevent a permanent capsize.The hull would be fairly narrow and the wing would pivot for trailering or stowage.It would have a spinnaker... These are pictures of an rc model with such a system on it: http://www.microsail.com/pictures/m24c5.jpg http://www.microsail.com/pictures/m24c6.jpg The concept is to allow high performance without the physical requirements of most dinghies in order to open up the thrill of performance dinghy sailing to people that for whatever reason don't want to or physically can't hike or use a trapeze. I'd really like to hear comments... ================= Edited to try to determine why the url's here are "live" and the one on my last post is not... Edited by Doug Lord |
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Isis ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Sep 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2753 |
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Its a nice idea opening the high performance realm to those who, for
whatever reason, just arent agile enough to sail the available boats
but for the same reason that they cant sail them at the moment I dont
think it would be sucsesfull. High performance boats are very dynamic
boats to sail. Thier design means they have very little static
stability and you are constantly moving about responding to the boats
movement. Whilst the principle obvoisly works on a small scale i dont
think you would get enough responce from the balast to make it
sucsessfull in the 'real world'
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ssailor ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 11 Oct 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 430 |
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true, not only that, the idea of a high performance boat is that its
your weight keeping it flat therefore they dont weigh much, so i feel
it wud be good but not quite a skiff!
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Any one in need of quality carbon fibre work (tillers etc) at decent prices!
Int 14 Gbr 1244 'Nucking Futs' The New Port rule!!. |
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*GM* ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 122 |
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Hmmm, the SA discussion was quite amusing.... http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?s=440dddfceb2 6731d34c7d88be63fd538&showtopic=23407
What's it rate........... |
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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What happens when you capsize with the ballast on the "down" side (which is going to happen sooner or later)? OK, so you have flotation, so the boat doesn't actually sink, but how do you right it? You actually need quite a lot of flotation to generate 170-200kg. It would be bulky. Electric power and dinghies in salt water - sure - that will work for about 5 minutes. Isis's point about the need for righting moment to be dynamic is also a very good one.
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Doug Lord ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 03 Sep 05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 66 |
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This idea won't produce a skiff necessarily -just a high powered dinghy.
In the states the Martin 16 uses electrical components for handicapped assistance very successfully-not to mention all the ocean racers using electric winches or electric based canting keel systems(Schock 40); there have been tremendous advances in making that stuff work extremely well in a harsh environment. The initial concept includes a weighted daggerboard -the boat would be self righting . In a worse case scenario with the wing fully extended: if the wind quit there is more buoyancy in the wing+ buoyancy pod then there is weight; If the boat was capsized it would right itself. At least when sailed in it's "safest" mode. It could, theoretically, be sailed without the keel weight and still be rightable by an able bodied person. Whether the ballast is moved electrically or manually it is possible to design a system that moves the weight from max extension to center in one second-faster than a normal "crew" could move.91kg. of ballast with a CG at 2.43m from the CL at max extension is a lot of RM. Further, the ballast is adjustable, is never late, does exactly what you want done when you want it done and, most importantly, MOVES FAST.. A "robocrew" that makes this a potentially exciting singlehander. |
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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Hm....have you had much actual experience with boat electrics or keelboats? Electrics fail all the time, even on bigger boats, let alone something as wet as you are proposing. Anyone who has sailed high performance keelboats for very long has had the experience of them not self-righting, even without the benefit of moveable ballast on the wrong side pinning the boat down. |
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Doug Lord ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 03 Sep 05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 66 |
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Don't focus too much on the electric option-the standard design would be manual-even though the electric system(with manual backup) could be made to work very reliably.
"Movable ballast on the wrong side pinning the boat down" . If you reread the previous post you'll notice the part about more buoyancy in the wing than weight. But no matter how well designed there are conditions that will be too much for this boat-or any boat. Since the concept works on model boats the next step is to-sometime- build one and test it- the fun potential is there as well as the high performance potential with or without a keel. I'm interested in seeing what Bethwaite comes up with in his "LAS"-lead assisted skiff- which, as I understand it, is being looked at for the 2008 Paralympic's. |
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CurlyBen ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 17 Aug 05 Location: Southampton Online Status: Offline Posts: 539 |
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Another problem with the electric option is the weight - batteries are
very heavy and I can't see how else you'd power it. You could make them
part of the ballast, but then you've got the risk of electric cables
being snagged when the thing moves. Also, I think model boats tend to
be sailed on small ponds with little in the way of waves- I'm not
certain on this but the pics I've seen suggest that - so simply scaling
up may not work. Finally, even if the weight can move fast enough, I
doubt you could control it accurately enough to be able to keep the
boat flat in gusts/waves.
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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And if you reread my first post, I said that enough buoyancy to counteract 200kg of ballast is going to be bulky. |
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